Poll tax and land tax, are they the same thing?

[Molybdane]

I'm trying to get the Russian economy out of a deficit, but the wording of things doesn't make it any easier. Apparently, poll tax is a 'flat tax collected on every working adult it applies to'. As weird as this wording is (how do you collect taxes on people it doesn't apply to), this tax is only collected from peasants. Any other occupation of workers doesn't pay it. Workers only pay income tax and consumption tax.

To add to the confusion, in the tax laws, it says that peasants pay something called 'land tax' but I cannot find this anywhere in their expenses. Does that mean that 'land tax' and 'poll tax' are the same thing?

Final question. Right now, the poll tax is raking in the cash but with peasants moving from subsistence farming to regular jobs, that source of tax goes away. Is the only workaround to change the tax law, requiring the change of a lot of other laws first, i.e. do I need to take the plunge through deficit and societal change before I will break even again?

[High Lord Denix]

Originally posted by Molybdane:

I'm trying to get the Russian economy out of a deficit, but the wording of things doesn't make it any easier. Apparently, poll tax is a 'flat tax collected on every working adult it applies to'. As weird as this wording is (how do you collect taxes on people it doesn't apply to), this tax is only collected from peasants. Any other occupation of workers doesn't pay it. Workers only pay income tax and consumption tax.

To add to the confusion, in the tax laws, it says that peasants pay something called 'land tax' but I cannot find this anywhere in their expenses. Does that mean that 'land tax' and 'poll tax' are the same thing?

Final question. Right now, the poll tax is raking in the cash but with peasants moving from subsistence farming to regular jobs, that source of tax goes away. Is the only workaround to change the tax law, requiring the change of a lot of other laws first, i.e. do I need to take the plunge through deficit and societal change before I will break even again?

You could mouse over the tool tips in the game and you would have all your questions about tax answered, poll taxes are any flat taxes in your tax laws, Land Taxes for Land-Based Taxation or Land and Per Capita Taxes for Per Capita Taxation, simple enough.

It's kinda weird wording to call moving to more efficient tax laws a workaround, you're not meant to stay at most of the laws you start with unless you're RPing trying to stay landowners or something, so yes, you should be moving away from serfdom and traditionalism to get better tax laws.

In my opinion Russia has probably one of the strongest economies in the game in the hands of a player with all the natural resources they start with, you shouldn't really be running a deficit at all unless you're doing it intentionally, did you overbuild construction sectors or move to second tier of them to early?

[Molybdane]

Originally posted by High Lord Denix:

Originally posted by Molybdane:

I'm trying to get the Russian economy out of a deficit, but the wording of things doesn't make it any easier. Apparently, poll tax is a 'flat tax collected on every working adult it applies to'. As weird as this wording is (how do you collect taxes on people it doesn't apply to), this tax is only collected from peasants. Any other occupation of workers doesn't pay it. Workers only pay income tax and consumption tax.

To add to the confusion, in the tax laws, it says that peasants pay something called 'land tax' but I cannot find this anywhere in their expenses. Does that mean that 'land tax' and 'poll tax' are the same thing?

Final question. Right now, the poll tax is raking in the cash but with peasants moving from subsistence farming to regular jobs, that source of tax goes away. Is the only workaround to change the tax law, requiring the change of a lot of other laws first, i.e. do I need to take the plunge through deficit and societal change before I will break even again?

You could mouse over the tool tips in the game and you would have all your questions about tax answered, poll taxes are any flat taxes in your tax laws, Land Taxes for Land-Based Taxation or Land and Per Capita Taxes for Per Capita Taxation, simple enough.

Okay, if ANY flat tax makes up the collection of poll taxes, then that at least answers that question. Great.

Originally posted by High Lord Denix:

It's kinda weird wording to call moving to more efficient tax laws a workaround, you're not meant to stay at most of the laws you start with unless you're RPing trying to stay landowners or something, so yes, you should be moving away from serfdom and traditionalism to get better tax laws.

It is not that weird if, while switching people from poll tax paying jobs to non-poll tax paying jobs, income is lost, and it'll take the better tax laws to compensate. Which will take time because the landowners have no problems with industrialisation per-se, just the changes in laws other interest groups want.

Originally posted by High Lord Denix:

In my opinion Russia has probably one of the strongest economies in the game in the hands of a player with all the natural resources they start with, you shouldn't really be running a deficit at all unless you're doing it intentionally, did you overbuild construction sectors or move to second tier of them to early?

That's why I'm playing Russia, got get to understand the economy. I am at a deficit because I've expanded my construction sector. I almost always switch over to iron-wrought construction asap, as it makes each building 2,5 times more productive. As these buildings eat up 4 infrastructure, something Russia is short of, that's almost a requirement. Yet, I still feel I don't have enough construction capacity. This run, I've also built a ton of universities, probably about 10 in addition to the starting 2, as I assume they help with training people for better jobs.

I can get out of a deficit quite easily by stopping construction, but there's still so much to do. I need an ammunition industry set up and have to modernise my army. Then, there'll be something else.

[High Lord Denix]

Originally posted by Molybdane:

That's why I'm playing Russia, got get to understand the economy. I am at a deficit because I've expanded my construction sector. I almost always switch over to iron-wrought construction asap, as it makes each building 2,5 times more productive. As these buildings eat up 4 infrastructure, something Russia is short of, that's almost a requirement. Yet, I still feel I don't have enough construction capacity. This run, I've also built a ton of universities, probably about 10 in addition to the starting 2, as I assume they help with training people for better jobs.

I can get out of a deficit quite easily by stopping construction, but there's still so much to do. I need an ammunition industry set up and have to modernise my army. Then, there'll be something else.

Switching over to iron construction right away specifically as Russia is what the kids would call a noob trap, they produce so much wood it's better to just max out 3-4 states with wood construction and spend all the money you save from doing that on universities to help rush railways which deals with the infrastructure issue, Russia has a decent amount of coastal land for ports if the infrastructure is really such an issue, it's fine to spend time building them up because you'll use the convoys anyway.

[Molybdane]

Originally posted by High Lord Denix:

Switching over to iron construction right away specifically as Russia is what the kids would call a noob trap...

I'll buy that, especially considering how cheap construction companies are.

Originally posted by High Lord Denix:

they (Russia. ed) produce so much wood it's better to just max out 3-4 states with wood construction and spend all the money you save from doing that on universities to help rush railways which deals with the infrastructure issue, Russia has a decent amount of coastal land for ports if the infrastructure is really such an issue, it's fine to spend time building them up because you'll use the convoys anyway.

I can do that. That leaves me with 2 more questions, how much construction capacity should I aim for (I have 70 now), and what makes exporting such a good deal; tariffs?

[High Lord Denix]

There's not really a correct answer for how much capacity you should aim for, I generally just do it by feel, if you're ever making profit and don't have much debt you should probably build a couple and just repeat that until you're satisfied, I never build more than 100 Sectors total (3-4 states worth after technology) as it puts you up over 1000 Capacity when you hit Steel-Frames, there's no real reason I stop there it's just what I like to aim for.

Exporting (and importing) are just good ways to regulate your market, the obvious effect is it removes goods from your market and gives you a little money as tariffs, but by removing goods from the market it increases the value of those goods making the buildings that create them more productive (increasing GDP), the more productive the building is the higher the potential wages (taxable income).

[Molybdane]

I appreciate this. I've got a few more numbers to figure out, on tariffs, and on the cost per construction point. Something for the morrow.