Wood/iron -> tools loop

[Spieluin]

Hey there,

I'm new to the game and I don't quite get a thing. I have a deficit of tools, so I need to upgrade the tool facilities but then I need more wood/iron which when I upgrade them need tools. So it's an endless deficit loop.
How to solve that? I'm guessing I'm just too dumb to figure that out.
Trading is no option as the deficits are too high and the trade routes available get negative money.
Help.

[teron]

As long as you are not hitting shortage levels, e.g. +75% price then things are fine. You just work on building more to solve your issue. Plus researching better techs to unlock better PMs. Since for example going from simple forestry --> Saw mills is a 2x increase in wood output for the cost of 5 tools per building.

Even hitting shortage levels briefly can be fine as long as you resolve the issue in a timely manner.

Ideally though you want to keep most of your tool factories in a single state for the throughput bonuses, while also throwing an encourage manufacturing decree on that state to improve your tool output.

Note that their is a bit of a trade off between stacking production in single states for though put bonuses (and decrees) vs spreading it slightly to stagger your PM changes.

It is also where going along the path for railroads can be a good idea, since it unlocks a lot of the early game PMs, plus the major reliable way to increase your infrastructure. Plus has good techs on the path like Atmospheric Engine which allows you to use tools and coal to increase mine outputs.

[Spieluin]

Originally posted by teron:

As long as you are not hitting shortage levels, e.g. +75% price then things are fine. You just work on building more to solve your issue. Plus researching better techs to unlock better PMs. Since for example going from simple forestry --> Saw mills is a 2x increase in wood output for the cost of 5 tools per building.

Even hitting shortage levels briefly can be fine as long as you resolve the issue in a timely manner.

Ideally though you want to keep most of your tool factories in a single state for the throughput bonuses, while also throwing an encourage manufacturing decree on that state to improve your tool output.

Note that their is a bit of a trade off between stacking production in single states for though put bonuses (and decrees) vs spreading it slightly to stagger your PM changes.

It is also where going along the path for railroads can be a good idea, since it unlocks a lot of the early game PMs, plus the major reliable way to increase your infrastructure. Plus has good techs on the path like Atmospheric Engine which allows you to use tools and coal to increase mine outputs.

Thank you, I will look at this.

[Aven Oul]

historically we used bronze to mine iron which we then used to mine iron and other stuff etc progression, but since this game doesn't add bronze we have to suffer with the deficit loop, the best way to fix this is to import tools
(I say historically also prehistorical as well since not everywhere was able to document stuff at the same time.)

[Spieluin]

Originally posted by Aven-0ul:

historically we used bronze to mine iron which we then used to mine iron and other stuff etc progression, but since this game doesn't add bronze we have to suffer with the deficit loop, the best way to fix this is to import tools
(I say historically also prehistorical as well since not everywhere was able to document stuff at the same time.)

Yeah, but I only have import routes which give me negative money. For me this design is.. not so good.

[alexander.julian.erhard]

Originally posted by Spieluin:

Hey there,
Trading is no option as the deficits are too high and the trade routes available get negative money.

Then the other nations probably have similarily expensive tools/iron/wood it seems.
Although if you are on mercantilism or protectionism, you can choose to set goods you really want to import to "prioritize imports", which will make the state take away less of the profits so trade will be more profitable.


But usually the first couple of years you´ll probably spend with building tools, iron, wood and once atmospheric engine is unlocked, coal.
And as long as you have decent surplus budget, more construcion sectors or switching them to Iron-Frame-Buildings, which is vastly more upkeep efficient
(~40-50% cheaper per construction point at base good prices!)
than Wooden Buildings. Although it obviously requires more time compared to just building more Wooden Buildings construction sectors, because Wood and Fabric production already exists, while Iron and Tools production has to be expanded along the way.

[teron]

Originally posted by Spieluin:

Yeah, but I only have import routes which give me negative money. For me this design is.. not so good.

Except that trade route is a single input to the entire economy, where having a bit of a good could still better then not having it. Or you are creating supply/demand in your market for that good with the hope that it encourages an AI country in your market to start developing that resource.
E.g. extremely early game example would be importing tools to flip your logging industry from the first PM to Saw Mills to double logging camp output. Since that would drive down the cost of wood, which is good for your wooden frame construction industry(input good price), furniture industry, and pops since they use wood for heating and poor pops making crude furniture themselves. Plus, the fact that sawmills shift the building ownership from shopkeepers to Capitalists, where the capitalists are more likely to pay into the construction pool (law depending) and support Industrialists and Intelligentsia factions.

For large volume trade routes, you can have a point in time deficit but the route will typically rebalance to where it is profitable. This also means that trade can cause lags when you are developing an industry to meet a need, since your newly built capacity will likely make the trade route less profitable so it will decrease to the point that it is profitable again. It being a shift of you consuming more domestic units less import units, which can be a good thing for critical input goods to reduce the risk of an external event hurting your economy.
An example of this is a game I had as Sweden where the US civil war caused major economic issues for me due to causing a tool and explosives shortage in my empire. My solution to it was to start importing tools and explosives from multiple nations while also using the 2K construction points I had to mass building tool and chemical plants.
It is why it is a good idea to periodically review your imports, and sometimes build stuff to reduce your dependency on those imports.

[Scheneighnay]

Shortages of tools, iron, and paper are common in the early game. You'll outpace them eventually. Imports help in the meantime