No way to increase wages now?

[6ap6apblckaAa]

Say you have a building with 30 productivity and 6 avg wage. Qualifications are no problem. State is incorporated and every culture is accepted. There is always a number of unemployed people. 100K laborers working there have a sol of 13 and expected sol of 15.
Also, 75% of normal wage doesn't cover 15 sol in the country, it's basicly the same wage as laborers get in this building.

With this setup afaik the building will NEVER raise the wage, because it's above 50% occupancy. Although i think it was intended that it should, because there are accepted workers with less than expected sol working inside and the profit is larger than 30%.

Only solution is to delete the building and rebuild it (except for creating artificial worker shortage for at least 12 weeks)? Even if its level 51 :'(

[Spulls]

They were screaming for greedy building owners on the official forums so Paradox delivered. The issue really is that they set the building wages far too low from the start now and take months to raise wages, so sometimes, you just end up with buildings that remain at 51% capacity.

[6ap6apblckaAa]

Actually, in my games they set wages way too high often at start, like 25 when prod is 10 :)

Also, the building is at 100%, because there is some unemployment. My point is that fighting unexpected sol is now mostly impossible.

[TasteDasRainbow]

standard of living at this point will inevitably come down to whether or not you can saturate your markets heavily enough with consumer goods. I.e. your peasants/laborers will do well when grain, clothes, liquor, etc. heavy portions of their budget are cheap and not consumption taxed.

On the flip side regarding your concern directly with wages, it can help to manipulate your markets artificially to jump start some factories if the purchased materials are calculated as too expensive for whatever reason.

It would be nice imo if the factor of 'pop will not work here because will make more at X job' would factor more broadly into wage increases, without necessarily having to have zero laborers available to create such shortage conditions.

[teron]

Originally posted by 6ap6apblckaAa:

Actually, in my games they set wages way too high often at start, like 25 when prod is 10 :)

Also, the building is at 100%, because there is some unemployment. My point is that fighting unexpected sol is now mostly impossible.

Because the game uses a single building wage within each building/state, which all professions are a wage weight modifier off that base wage (minus discrimination penalties.)

So as an example, a steel mill in the state of Texas were to have a base wage of 10. Then you would see the following (assuming no discrimination):
-Labours make 10 (weight 1)
-Machinist make 15 (weight 1.5)
-Engineers make 30 (weight 3)
-Capitalists make 60 (weight 60)

But if there is a lack pops to fill jobs like engineers in the state then the building wage gets adjusted upwards to try attracting them, which has the knock on effect of paying your machinists and labours more. Which is not a bad thing since their higher SOL = higher education access = higher literacy rate target that pops tend to overtime = easier to meet qualification requirements.

This also means that professions in a poor rural state tend to have higher salaries vs a heavy urbanized state where there are more. Also that it is a good idea to toss fast building industries (logging camps/fishing/farms) into a barely developed state to start the ball rolling on getting some decently educated labours who can transition into better jobs when you add new buildings later.

Wages are only one part of the SOL equation, the other is the costs of goods and taxes. One thing to look at is what consumption taxes you are charging, e.g. they should really be services and luxury clothing/furniture/porcelain since those are bought less by the lower strata.
Also driving the price of foods down, especially grain via using fertilizer is a good idea. Or spamming fishing, especially if you have a surplus of steamers. Which almost always happens if you build a massive navy.

Finally, look at your taxation laws. Since on natural taxation:
-Per capita is an income tax of 15%
-Proportional Taxation is an income tax of 25%
-Gradual taxation is an income tax of 15%
So your lower strata would love if you move from proportional to gradual since it is a massive tax reduction for them of around 40%.

[6ap6apblckaAa]

Originally posted by TasteDasRainbow:

standard of living at this point will inevitably come down to whether or not you can saturate your markets heavily enough with consumer goods. I.e. your peasants/laborers will do well when grain, clothes, liquor, etc. heavy portions of their budget are cheap and not consumption taxed.

On the flip side regarding your concern directly with wages, it can help to manipulate your markets artificially to jump start some factories if the purchased materials are calculated as too expensive for whatever reason.

It would be nice imo if the factor of 'pop will not work here because will make more at X job' would factor more broadly into wage increases, without necessarily having to have zero laborers available to create such shortage conditions.

Yeah, I understand, that we can manipulate market prices and other things, but this seems way too overkill when you look at the building which makes 400% profit and has unexpected SoL workers :( Especially when it looks like (in defines) that it was intended to work.

[6ap6apblckaAa]

Originally posted by teron:

Originally posted by 6ap6apblckaAa:

Actually, in my games they set wages way too high often at start, like 25 when prod is 10 :)

Also, the building is at 100%, because there is some unemployment. My point is that fighting unexpected sol is now mostly impossible.

Because the game uses a single building wage within each building/state, which all professions are a wage weight modifier off that base wage (minus discrimination penalties.)

So as an example, a steel mill in the state of Texas were to have a base wage of 10. Then you would see the following (assuming no discrimination):
-Labours make 10 (weight 1)
-Machinist make 15 (weight 1.5)
-Engineers make 30 (weight 3)
-Capitalists make 60 (weight 60)

But if there is a lack pops to fill jobs like engineers in the state then the building wage gets adjusted upwards to try attracting them, which has the knock on effect of paying your machinists and labours more. Which is not a bad thing since their higher SOL = higher education access = higher literacy rate target that pops tend to overtime = easier to meet qualification requirements.

This also means that professions in a poor rural state tend to have higher salaries vs a heavy urbanized state where there are more. Also that it is a good idea to toss fast building industries (logging camps/fishing/farms) into a barely developed state to start the ball rolling on getting some decently educated labours who can transition into better jobs when you add new buildings later.

Wages are only one part of the SOL equation, the other is the costs of goods and taxes. One thing to look at is what consumption taxes you are charging, e.g. they should really be services and luxury clothing/furniture/porcelain since those are bought less by the lower strata.
Also driving the price of foods down, especially grain via using fertilizer is a good idea. Or spamming fishing, especially if you have a surplus of steamers. Which almost always happens if you build a massive navy.

Finally, look at your taxation laws. Since on natural taxation:
-Per capita is an income tax of 15%
-Proportional Taxation is an income tax of 25%
-Gradual taxation is an income tax of 15%
So your lower strata would love if you move from proportional to gradual since it is a massive tax reduction for them of around 40%.

Regarding qualifications and starting wage - I know that, but the end result is that building starts with avg wage 2-3 times higher than productivity and then slowly lowers them anyway. IMHO this is a bug.
And regarding prices and taxes - let's say we have an ideal market with base prices and normal taxes (25% income). I know i can manipulate prices and lower taxes even more, but this is too much imo when a building has 400% profit and only needs to raise base wage by a little bit to accomodate expected SoL.

[teron]

Originally posted by 6ap6apblckaAa:

Regarding qualifications and starting wage - I know that, but the end result is that building starts with avg wage 2-3 times higher than productivity and then slowly lowers them anyway. IMHO this is a bug.
And regarding prices and taxes - let's say we have an ideal market with base prices and normal taxes (25% income). I know i can manipulate prices and lower taxes even more, but this is too much imo when a building has 400% profit and only needs to raise base wage by a little bit to accomodate expected SoL.

It is more the building having to have a higher wage to attract people during staff up while others promote into the open roles like labours (where anyone can become a labour). It happens less in highly developed states where you have a pool of qualified unemployed pops that have migrated in.

For taxes, if you are 25% income tax at normal rate that means you are running proportional taxation which has a 10% dividend tax rate (on building profits). So for the owners it is more profitable tax wise to keep wages lower and collect lesser taxed dividends.

If you flip to gradual taxation, it becomes 15% income tax, 20% dividend tax.
Which does the following:
- Building Owners suddenly are paying 2x the dividend taxes(10% --> 20% tax rate), but saving money on income taxes
- Building Owners likely demand a higher wage from the business to make up the loss
- building wages go up since everything is in a held ratio
- lower/middle strata benefit from the income tax reduction in addition to the potentially higher wages

Also in markets, it is easy to drive down the cost of grain/furniture/clothing and they will have a good impact on the SOL of your pops.

[6ap6apblckaAa]

Originally posted by teron:

- Building Owners likely demand a higher wage from the business to make up the loss

But afaik this also won't make the wages rise (because occupancy is larger than 50%)!

[teron]

Originally posted by 6ap6apblckaAa:

Originally posted by teron:

- Building Owners likely demand a higher wage from the business to make up the loss

But afaik this also won't make the wages rise (because occupancy is larger than 50%)!

It should if they have to offer higher wages to attract pops because they want full employment assuming that the business is profitable.

Or just go council republic with worker coops, since then all your upper strata pops get fired. With your lower and middle strata getting dividends from the business instead and thus become very well off.
Downside being that any non subject nation in a customs union you are leading will bail since they get a -50 malus on the union for you being a different economic system. Which can be hilarious when it then crashes their GDP by more then 60%.

Though you can run into resource issues, for example one game as the soviet union running out of resources because I had tapped all resource buildings in my directly controlled area (Russia, South America, 1/4 Africa, China, Korea, Japan)

[6ap6apblckaAa]

Originally posted by teron:

It should if they have to offer higher wages to attract pops because they want full employment assuming that the business is profitable.

Nope, if occupancy is higher than 50%, they just won't raise wages, that's the problem. And also there is a more usual case of 100% occupancy with even some unemployment. As I said earlier, yes, you can create artificial worker shortage, but that's not the point.

[TasteDasRainbow]

Yeah I def agree it's a bit too stringent with how it handles wage growth currently.

I'd reiterate along my prior statement and your own concern with '50% occupancy affecting wages', in that the value and wage of other industries should affect the employment capabilities of those with lesser in a stepwise manner, so as to universally encourage wage growth as different industries compete long term for strong profits.

[6ap6apblckaAa]

I'd also suggest that either they make buildings raise until expected sol or let the minimum wage do it in some good way.

[Mr_MeGusta]

Best way I found to ensure your people have a good SoL is to lower taxes and don't add consumption taxes on things they buy. Clothing, wheat, fish, fruit, fabric, heating, services I avoid taxing if possible and it really helps my lower pops. Instead I add taxes on luxary goods to extract wealth from those who are doing well. This means that less pops will promote but I find overall more pops are happy.

[DinoMight]

just subsidise a building till it becomes profitable