Go to war in exchange for something

[LudovicoRe [ITA]]

Hi all, I find that not being able to enter a war and demand what I want is something that destroys immersion.

If I have to participate in wars as a third party, I would like to be able to choose what I want (or at least be able to request it) and to be able to deal with the nation that would like me to participate.

Not just out of obligation.

This in my opinion is the biggest flaw of Victoria III. Basically in this way you enter war for free, and it wouldn't make sense to do so if you don't have something in return, which we would like to have.

[teron]

Except outside of having to help your subjects with rebellions, you can always decide to not help. Even abandon allies. I had a game where while Austria was dealing with rebellions I was puppeting people they were allied to and watching Austria abandon them.

Or you can get cases where you join a war where a side offers you something. Then smash that wargoal to get your stuff and then capitulate out if there are no war goals against you.

[adobo]

If you're in an alliance or defense pact, its not really free since you should have negotiated something to get to that point like trying to get them into your custom union.

You can join wars your not involved in by "leaning" to a side and they'll offer you something to join them.

[olstar18]

I'm more concerned with the way countries keep getting involved in minor conflicts in areas of the world they have no colonies or territory in when its to fight you but if you want to bring in some help you get a list of everyone who refuses with one or two who might and a screen of 10 options you have to search through one by one to find what it is they want because the game won't tell you otherwise.

[Burma Jones]

Originally posted by olstar18:

I'm more concerned with the way countries keep getting involved in minor conflicts in areas of the world they have no colonies or territory in when its to fight you but if you want to bring in some help you get a list of everyone who refuses with one or two who might and a screen of 10 options you have to search through one by one to find what it is they want because the game won't tell you otherwise.

Yeah, it really feels like it's designed to keep you from ever going to war. AI acts like world police whenever you try to do anything at all yet they're colonizing the moon. Then the UI is so awful that you have to pause and spend a couple minutes just to set war goals. I don't even bother with swaying anymore because of what you said. Usually you can't even do what would sway them unless it's an obligation.

Also, for some reason it kicks you back two screens whenever you go through anything in the horrible diplo play window. Check to sway a country, hit back, now you're on the map. wtf. Add war goal, conquer state, hit back, now you're on a state overview window somehow? Idk this game is worse than Imperator by a giant margin.

[teron]

Originally posted by Burma Jones:

Originally posted by olstar18:

I'm more concerned with the way countries keep getting involved in minor conflicts in areas of the world they have no colonies or territory in when its to fight you but if you want to bring in some help you get a list of everyone who refuses with one or two who might and a screen of 10 options you have to search through one by one to find what it is they want because the game won't tell you otherwise.

Yeah, it really feels like it's designed to keep you from ever going to war. AI acts like world police whenever you try to do anything at all yet they're colonizing the moon. Then the UI is so awful that you have to pause and spend a couple minutes just to set war goals. I don't even bother with swaying anymore because of what you said. Usually you can't even do what would sway them unless it's an obligation.

Also, for some reason it kicks you back two screens whenever you go through anything in the horrible diplo play window. Check to sway a country, hit back, now you're on the map. wtf. Add war goal, conquer state, hit back, now you're on a state overview window somehow? Idk this game is worse than Imperator by a giant margin.

That is why you look at who is interested in a region. Then either wait till an annoying party like a GP is busy before you do stuff. Since for example, if they are in the middle of fighting other GPs or major civil wars countries tend to not want to get involved in other wars.

Or go after your targets allies in a different region (without the world police's interest), with the hopes of dragging the real country you want to fight into the war.

I had one game where the GB lost South Africa as a puppet, then dropped their interest in the region. Which meant I starting puppeting/colonizing the area for resources since the only European power interested in the area was Portugal who would nope out of every diplo play

[Burma Jones]

Originally posted by teron:

Originally posted by Burma Jones:

Yeah, it really feels like it's designed to keep you from ever going to war. AI acts like world police whenever you try to do anything at all yet they're colonizing the moon. Then the UI is so awful that you have to pause and spend a couple minutes just to set war goals. I don't even bother with swaying anymore because of what you said. Usually you can't even do what would sway them unless it's an obligation.

Also, for some reason it kicks you back two screens whenever you go through anything in the horrible diplo play window. Check to sway a country, hit back, now you're on the map. wtf. Add war goal, conquer state, hit back, now you're on a state overview window somehow? Idk this game is worse than Imperator by a giant margin.

That is why you look at who is interested in a region. Then either wait till an annoying party like a GP is busy before you do stuff. Since for example, if they are in the middle of fighting other GPs or major civil wars countries tend to not want to get involved in other wars.

Or go after your targets allies in a different region (without the world police's interest), with the hopes of dragging the real country you want to fight into the war.

I had one game where the GB lost South Africa as a puppet, then dropped their interest in the region. Which meant I starting puppeting/colonizing the area for resources since the only European power interested in the area was Portugal who would nope out of every diplo play

Not too far into the game virtually every great power gets called into every diplomatic play. Your suggestion doesn't really do anything because eventually the entire world is within the "sphere" of all the great powers. In my games, France, Britain, USA at minimum are on every continent, and usually Spain, Denmark and Portugal and other major powers lean in too. Once my economy is massive obviously it's a non-issue in terms of simply "progressing" the game, but it makes for terrible gameplay and feels very boolean. The AI gets involved way too often, and either I'm strong enough to just not care, or I have to get stalled out. It's very boring.

[olstar18]

Originally posted by Burma Jones:

Originally posted by teron:

That is why you look at who is interested in a region. Then either wait till an annoying party like a GP is busy before you do stuff. Since for example, if they are in the middle of fighting other GPs or major civil wars countries tend to not want to get involved in other wars.

Or go after your targets allies in a different region (without the world police's interest), with the hopes of dragging the real country you want to fight into the war.

I had one game where the GB lost South Africa as a puppet, then dropped their interest in the region. Which meant I starting puppeting/colonizing the area for resources since the only European power interested in the area was Portugal who would nope out of every diplo play

Not too far into the game virtually every great power gets called into every diplomatic play. Your suggestion doesn't really do anything because eventually the entire world is within the "sphere" of all the great powers. In my games, France, Britain, USA at minimum are on every continent, and usually Spain, Denmark and Portugal and other major powers lean in too. Once my economy is massive obviously it's a non-issue in terms of simply "progressing" the game, but it makes for terrible gameplay and feels very boolean. The AI gets involved way too often, and either I'm strong enough to just not care, or I have to get stalled out. It's very boring.

And then you have the issues of trying to build up alliances with that poorly implemented diplo system. A bunch of different options to gain favor that are pretty much useless unless you are more powerful than the one you are dealing with and even then will probably be an automatic no.

[Burma Jones]

Originally posted by olstar18:

Originally posted by Burma Jones:

Not too far into the game virtually every great power gets called into every diplomatic play. Your suggestion doesn't really do anything because eventually the entire world is within the "sphere" of all the great powers. In my games, France, Britain, USA at minimum are on every continent, and usually Spain, Denmark and Portugal and other major powers lean in too. Once my economy is massive obviously it's a non-issue in terms of simply "progressing" the game, but it makes for terrible gameplay and feels very boolean. The AI gets involved way too often, and either I'm strong enough to just not care, or I have to get stalled out. It's very boring.

And then you have the issues of trying to build up alliances with that poorly implemented diplo system. A bunch of different options to gain favor that are pretty much useless unless you are more powerful than the one you are dealing with and even then will probably be an automatic no.

Yeah dude, their diplo is so bad. The only thing that matters is if the AI thinks it(s coalition) can take you or not. You just get to a point with GDP where you can support a big, high-tech military and impose your will and you can take on coalitions or they don't oppose you. Otherwise you can't do anything.

I always improve relations with Britain, France, etc., go for alliances, and it always ends up irrelevant. They don't back you for anything anyway if you're allied, nothing sways them besides if you're not allied, and they usually end up going against you unless you're a lot stronger.

It's super boring. Nothing in diplomacy matters, can't control the military at all and the AI sucks at it, it's ridiculous. No matter what, the only thing that really matters is queuing construction and research. Change production methods, build more, boost your GDP. Everything else is just waiting for notifications or RNG timers or the AI to do things for you. Ugh.

[olstar18]

Originally posted by Burma Jones:

Originally posted by olstar18:

And then you have the issues of trying to build up alliances with that poorly implemented diplo system. A bunch of different options to gain favor that are pretty much useless unless you are more powerful than the one you are dealing with and even then will probably be an automatic no.

Yeah dude, their diplo is so bad. The only thing that matters is if the AI thinks it(s coalition) can take you or not. You just get to a point with GDP where you can support a big, high-tech military and impose your will and you can take on coalitions or they don't oppose you. Otherwise you can't do anything.

I always improve relations with Britain, France, etc., go for alliances, and it always ends up irrelevant. They don't back you for anything anyway if you're allied, nothing sways them besides if you're not allied, and they usually end up going against you unless you're a lot stronger.

It's super boring. Nothing in diplomacy matters, can't control the military at all and the AI sucks at it, it's ridiculous. No matter what, the only thing that really matters is queuing construction and research. Change production methods, build more, boost your GDP. Everything else is just waiting for notifications or RNG timers or the AI to do things for you. Ugh.

The worst part is how much I enjoy the economic simulation even if it could be done better. This is the only paradox game where I actually use max speed because of how little that happens actually matters.

[Burma Jones]

Originally posted by olstar18:

The worst part is how much I enjoy the economic simulation even if it could be done better. This is the only paradox game where I actually use max speed because of how little that happens actually matters.

A stockpile mechanic, an accurate rework of arable land and resource distribution, some tweaks to capitalists and autonomous investment and I think the economy would be spot on. I would also say they need to make economic laws more different from one another but that's a laws issue and not the economic system itself.

Originally posted by olstar18:

This is the only paradox game where I actually use max speed because of how little that happens actually matters.

Same here. Once you've got some construction set, you're just watching for trade routes and waiting on RNG timers. Most of my time is spent going through the UI to click the button I want, there just isn't anything to do with bad diplo and no real war system.

If I tried max speed on HOI4 or EU4 I'd just have to pause continually to not miss everything. In Vic 3 it's honestly meaningless. Anything you do outside of a handful of things is genuinely meaningless. The economic simulation itself just is not a proper game on its own. We need real war and diplo. Also a complete rework of the UI.

[Horemvore]

Bankroll people......win.

27 nations in my Custom Union, 14 of which are Protoctorates all done will Bankroll Obligations. Not hard tbh :)

[olstar18]

Originally posted by Horemvore:

Bankroll people......win.

27 nations in my Custom Union, 14 of which are Protoctorates all done will Bankroll Obligations. Not hard tbh :)

You bankrolled them so you made more money than they did. Enough more that you were able to bankroll several of them. I do believe I mentioned options that were useless unless you were more powerful.