Germany vs Imperial Russia

[|Nick]

What do you think is stronger?
Germany or Russia?
Russia seem to have more lategame ressources like oil and more population, while lacking sulfur, while germanys only weakness seem to be the lack of products from southers states and oil

[Bibliophylax]

Spain stronger, you have acces to everything from the get go, even sugar and tabaco in iberia.

I think you resume the thing correctly, but sulfur is a major ressource endgame, it's somewhat balanced

[Toblm]

Germany, hands down.
Anything that is lacking in Europe can be acquired elsewhere. And a well played Germany has significantly more power to throw around than Russia after a few years. (I consider a 1846 Germany with or without Austria-Hungary, part of the well played Germany I mentioned)

Getting Russia out of the 12th century just takes too long.

[teron]

A lot of resource issues can be solved via trade, conquest and getting people into your market. Ideally nations you get into your market as protectorates since they are not allowed to leave. Then puppet and later annex if you want direct control.

For colonization:
-Hokkaido is good since it has 8 undiscovered goal mines, and 30ish of coal/iron/sulfer/lead. Plus whales for meat and oil. Just have to bully Japan for the rest of the state. Plus if you can use it to conquer further south to get access to silk
-Sakhalin, which is colonizable and north of Hokkaido. It has coal and iron, plus 5 undiscovered oil wells
-South America, you can colonize it then use it as a launching point to either get countries dipomatically into your market. Or just bully them in since a lot of them barely have armies. Gives access to resources like sugar

Convincing Netherlands into your market can be a good idea, even better if you can get them to accept a protectorate. Since they have the Dutch East Indies which has nice resources. You could later puppet Netherlands, which from what I remember will transfer the Dutch East Indies to you as a puppet. Which you can then annex for direct control if you want.

Hawaii is also an easy state to conquer, which has iron and wood (with a hardwood bonus). Plus an agriculture output bonus. Also having coffee, tea, tabacco and sugar

[Bibliophylax]

Toblm is probably the most accurate to me.
The problem with Russia is not that they lack people, resssources or puppet oportunities, the problem is the reform speed you have and tech speed.
Whatever you do, you will be always behind other eurpean countries because of your literacy rate.

Also i did a run with Poland and baltic states realeased as subjects, same for Georgia and Azerbaijan.
It help to lower your radical number because they are disciminate anyway and it help to develop the whole market better and faster.

[Midas]

The trick with russia is to get the correct "power" out of power, and the correct "power" into power :D
Costs you 400 points but works

[|Nick]

So Germany is way more powerfull in the beginning and has a headstart, but when Russia does fully Westernize lategame, is it's potential bigger? Or does the lack of sulfur hinders its developement?

[teron]

Originally posted by |Nick:

So Germany is way more powerfull in the beginning and has a headstart, but when Russia does fully Westernize lategame, is it's potential bigger? Or does the lack of sulfur hinders its developement?

Lack of sulfur does not hinder development since you have ways to get sulfur though trade, getting countries into your market or outright conquering. Best idea is to wait till GPs are busy somewhere else, or are not interested in the area of the globe. While also not going crazy high on your infamy until you are able to fight off multiple GPs.

Really it is about understanding the laws, and how to increase political power or people in a profession that supports the IGs you want. Plus knowing what techs to unlock.

The wiki has an IG page [vic3.paradoxwikis.com] which shows what professions tend to what IG.

For example, having more capitalists is good early game since they either will support the Industrialists or Intelligentsia which will support better laws then the landowners. A way to get more industrialists is to unlock tech that allows the second production PM in Mines/Fishing/Manufacturing. Since when you flip from the first PM to the second it automatically changes the ownership from Shopkeepers to Capitalists.

This is why going down the path to railroads as Russia can be good, since the techs on the way unlock a lot of the 2nd production PMs.

For Russia
-Getting off surfdom is important since it blocks schooling and getting off traditionalism.
-Landed voting is useful, since it gives political parties, but it also weakens Aristocrats political strength by giving some to capitalists, clergymen and officers
-Going away from Peasant levies to Professional army is good since it removes a landowner political power buff, and replaces it with an army one.
-Replacing Hereditary Bureaucrats with Appointed Bureaucrats, since it removes a political power buff from Landowners and replaces it with Intelligentsia. It also removes all the aristocrates from government admin buildings and replaces them with less expensive Bureacrats

[Toblm]

Originally posted by |Nick:

So Germany is way more powerfull in the beginning and has a headstart, but when Russia does fully Westernize lategame, is it's potential bigger? Or does the lack of sulfur hinders its developement?

In a single player environment, a player Russia can eventually become more powerful. This has little to with anything intrinsic about Russia, and much more to do with the player.

Germany and Russia in a MP environment with players of similar skill. Directly opposed or not. My money will always be on Germany.

[Bibliophylax]

the wiki of the IG is wrong
Sorry i need tyo tell it. But the politic system is doom by party leader popularity.
If you have luck with event you can reduce nobles IG leader popularity to -100 and all the pops that tend to support it will leave for the 2nd or third choice they have.
The situation is, if the party leader popularity is1 100 they will join no matter what you try....

Also the the randomness of their positions on laws don't allow to have a fair guide on the subject.
You can have a 40-50 years gap between 2 gameplay because of this.

As Serbia I reformed almost completly by 1850 just because the nobles party leader hit the -100 popularity early and goes under 15% clout in the first 10 years.......

[ReluctantGamer96]

In the current patch it is a mistake to get rid of landowners by enacting landed voting.
You should stay autocratic, pair them up with rural folk to get rid of serfdom, traditionalism than pair up with armed forces to get professional army and then pair them up with clergy to get education. You can get all the important reforms faster by cooperating with the landowners since high legitimacy is incredibly powerful.

If you choose to go for voting early you'll usually end up with very low legitimacy, that'll make passing reforms take forever and annoy every interest group in your country.
Just go my route and run with Agrarianism until your industrialists become the major reinvestment force.
I find Russia overall more satisfying to play since you don't have to deal with the Unification and you already start out with the strongest army.