Each production method is the better one after clicking it?

[Troubles The Cat]

Like I click one production method cos it says +200k, and then the one that I just turned off is now +250k. So which one do I click? If both are saying by clicking them I get more profit? So confused.

[SeroBruh The Maidenless]

You don't get any profit, the buildings do, if i understand it correctly. Using cheaper methods of production in terms of numbers of workers or goods needed will result in an increase of profit for the business, which then pays taxes accordingly. I think it was like that.

[Troubles The Cat]

Originally posted by SeroBruh The Maidenless:

You don't get any profit, the buildings do, if i understand it correctly. Using cheaper methods of production in terms of numbers of workers or goods needed will result in an increase of profit for the business, which then pays taxes accordingly. I think it was like that.

Ye that's what I meant, but same effect. I'm still confused why changing production methods each one says it's the more profitable one?

[Troubles The Cat]

Even had the building be more profitable on on method, changing it, and it's more profitable, then going back to the original, and it's EVEN MORE proftiable supposedly, makes no sense

[kgkong]

It's more or less dependent on how the rest of your nation is established. Newer production methods require more skilled employees, which require paying more in wages for the more specialized staff. This effectively reduces the output productivity. But on the same time, these specialized workers that get added with new PMs can add to the output. But at the cost of the output good(s) usually being more expensive.

If you lack education access and wealth in your state or your nation, then newer PMs for industry are not as good as the stock ones.

In other instances, some PMs reduce the number of staff required at an industry (usually while also requiring some higher qualified workers but not always). Giving harvest tools grain farms early in the game reduces the number of workers you need, which if you were restricted in how large your population is, this is better. It does add to the wage cost of your workers a little bit, but you're able to keep the industry staffed better and therefor keep it more effectively productive longer term. But if you're not population limited, then it's usually better to forgo using the harvest tools until you get more advance PMs unlocked. Even then, sometimes it is worthwhile to make the grain farms use these harvest tools even if it negatively impacts productivity/profitability of the farms, as it puts a demand on tools which can allow you to turn your tool workshops into much more productive industries.

Ranches as well have an option to use tools to produce more meat. But sometimes you don't need meat. Meat can be replaced with a variety of other food options for your pops, so sometimes trying to produce meat is unprofitable or just not very productive at all, as there's just far too little demand for your nation on meat as they have better and more affordable other options.

[Troubles The Cat]

I get the meaning behind them I think, what I'm confused at is why the "prediction algorithm" to supposedly show which production methods will do well, according to the paradox dev journel thing, why it says all methods have similar +250k and changing to one changes the other and basically doesn't tell me anything?

[kgkong]

Originally posted by Troubles The Cat:

I get the meaning behind them I think, what I'm confused at is why the "prediction algorithm" to supposedly show which production methods will do well, according to the paradox dev journel thing, why it says all methods have similar +250k and changing to one changes the other and basically doesn't tell me anything?

Which journal are you talking about specifically? Is this in the Learn the Game starting option?

Screenshot for us to take a look at it exactly so we can give more specific information to your circumstances.

[Troubles The Cat]

Originally posted by KingGorillaKong:

Originally posted by Troubles The Cat:

I get the meaning behind them I think, what I'm confused at is why the "prediction algorithm" to supposedly show which production methods will do well, according to the paradox dev journel thing, why it says all methods have similar +250k and changing to one changes the other and basically doesn't tell me anything?

Which journal are you talking about specifically? Is this in the Learn the Game starting option?

Screenshot for us to take a look at it exactly so we can give more specific information to your circumstances.

I meant on their forums

[kgkong]

Originally posted by Troubles The Cat:

Originally posted by KingGorillaKong:

Which journal are you talking about specifically? Is this in the Learn the Game starting option?

Screenshot for us to take a look at it exactly so we can give more specific information to your circumstances.

I meant on their forums

Which one? Can you link to it please?

[Troubles The Cat]

https://i.gyazo.com/9c39d90f5e640bc7995cda0f1f3a5d06.png

The goods substitution, apparantly it's meant to take everything into account to give you an idea of what's better. But I'm confused cos, the bottom one says +1.8k or whatever it says, but when I change to it, the top one will say +500 or something, then I change to the top one, then the bottom one will now say +100. Makes no sense?

[Troubles The Cat]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/victoria-3-dev-diary-5-production-methods.1480760/

[kgkong]

Originally posted by Troubles The Cat:

https://i.gyazo.com/9c39d90f5e640bc7995cda0f1f3a5d06.png

The goods substitution, apparantly it's meant to take everything into account to give you an idea of what's better. But I'm confused cos, the bottom one says +1.8k or whatever it says, but when I change to it, the top one will say +500 or something, then I change to the top one, then the bottom one will now say +100. Makes no sense?

So what you're experiencing is, before you make the PM shift to vacuum canning, it's telling you that based off of all current market demands and supplies, vacuum canning will then begin to produce 1.87k more. You switch PMs, and now the market has to make adjustments as the demands and supplies for the goods being used have shifted. In this case, it's adding demand on Fish and on Iron and on Oil. If the Canneries PM is saying it produces +500 more after making the switch, it means that the adjusted price for the oil good input has increased from the demand the Vacuum Canning method puts on the goods. If the Jars PM is saying it produces +500 more, it means that the combined fish, oil and iron are going up that much in price that that it's making regular grocery production more profitable.

To fix this, you want to increase your supply of oil, iron and/or fish, as the input costs (including wages) is driving up the end result cost which is why your other methods are now saying they're more profitable then vacuum canning. This way you can make vacuum canning more profitable.

[teron]

Well one thing is that changes do take a bit of time to shake out economically.
The project really more should be considered napkin math. Since some production outputs can fill multiple needs and have alternatives. Really I mainly just use it as a quick check to confirm that what I am doing is not going to cause demand issues on an input good by triggering shortages.

Classic example for alternatives is wood, which outside of the industrial uses can have the following:
-import/export which change dynamically
-Crude items need, which is filled by a mix of wood and furniture
-Heating needs, which is filled by a mix of wood, cloth, coal, oil and electricity
-Construction industry, though that depends if you are turning it on and off a lot vs scaling to be able to build constantly.

In general for PMs, for the first one tends to effect the buildings overall output.
For your resource (mines/farms/rubber/fish/whales) and your manufacturing buildings you always want to be at at least level 2, since that will change ownership from shopkeepers to capitalists (assuming your laws allow capitalist owners). Which are usually better due to some laws due to their investment pool contribution.

Also some PMs may shift the workforce, as an example replacing labours with machinist or farmers. Which while all 3 jobs are lower strata, labours have a wage weight of 1 vs the machinist/farmers 1.5 thus those two jobs will typically have a higher income and thus a higher SOL. So they should buy more stuff

Labour saving PMs mainly depend on how many pops you have, since if you have a ton you many want to keep them working as labours vs sending them back to the fields to work as peasants.

[Troubles The Cat]

I did try and wait several weeks as a test for one, and it was still saying everything the other methods were more profitable? I mean if the game actually expects you to fully work out the entire economy by hand math that's too much.
At this point I'm thinking to just keep everything on the maximum PM, because the prediction seems useless as it tells me everything is always the best, and I'm not capable of working out tons of maths

[kgkong]

Originally posted by Troubles The Cat:

I did try and wait several weeks as a test for one, and it was still saying everything the other methods were more profitable? I mean if the game actually expects you to fully work out the entire economy by hand math that's too much.
At this point I'm thinking to just keep everything on the maximum PM, because the prediction seems useless as it tells me everything is always the best, and I'm not capable of working out tons of maths

In this particular case you brought up with the vacuum canning, I'd say just keep it on the max PM option. +500 is a marginal switch to make in mid to late game, particularly when you have vacuum canning providing a substantial amount more of groceries for your people which help to offset a lot of the other food needs and is used by basically every pop without serious deviation. It's a good core stable good to have for your pops, and mass producing so much more keeps the groceries cost low which helps the pop groups maintain higher SoL by having more disposable income for other things.

[Troubles The Cat]

Originally posted by KingGorillaKong:

Originally posted by Troubles The Cat:

I did try and wait several weeks as a test for one, and it was still saying everything the other methods were more profitable? I mean if the game actually expects you to fully work out the entire economy by hand math that's too much.
At this point I'm thinking to just keep everything on the maximum PM, because the prediction seems useless as it tells me everything is always the best, and I'm not capable of working out tons of maths

In this particular case you brought up with the vacuum canning, I'd say just keep it on the max PM option. +500 is a marginal switch to make in mid to late game, particularly when you have vacuum canning providing a substantial amount more of groceries for your people which help to offset a lot of the other food needs and is used by basically every pop without serious deviation. It's a good core stable good to have for your pops, and mass producing so much more keeps the groceries cost low which helps the pop groups maintain higher SoL by having more disposable income for other things.

Oh it has already been switched like 30 times before that picture. But I can switch to vacuum canning for the +500, wait a week, then the other option would be like +200k. So switch to that, wait a few weeks, and then vacuum is suddenly +100k.