Railroad issues

[Jurk]

This is the 3rd time as going in for Germany. I can unite all of germany, get a good economy going with about 200k+ while activily buldiing. But the moment I need to take the next step and get railraods thats when it crashes. Railroads never make any money and I have to sub them to keep my Economy from crashing. That cost up to 200 to 300k. This added in with taxing higher rates casue my nation to rebell an I lose everything but my capital. What am I doing wrong that you have to keep railraods sub or is this just a game mech that is broken? Other AI nations seem to have no issues with this.

[heres johnny3112]

So there's two things to do - you have to upgrade the type of railroad to include passenger trains - that'll help make them money. Also when you can upgrade to electric or oil powered trains to make them more efficient.

Until that time - yeah - you'll pretty much have to subsidize them but the key is don't go overboard on rails - you don't gain anything to my knowledge by having excess infrastructure.

[teron]

One thing to keep track of is the cost of Transportation which is the output service (other then infrastructure) from railroads. Thus if the cost of that good is low, your railroads are more likely to be running in deficit.
So that is where using rail cars for mine/fish/farm/plantations and for urban centers comes in, since it will raise the demand for your transportation and its price.

Or since transportation is market wide, get someone into your market with a ton of pops. Since they will consume transportation. Example of this is if you are Finland, your early railroads make bank due to the fact that all your transportation created is consumed by Russia's population to satisfy their Free movement and Communication needs.

[Toblm]

How are you not making money on railroads? Transportation is a basic pop need. Slap some wood carriages on those bad boys and they print money as long as you have the input goods.

[D34DLY]

yeah, change the button on railroads to give +15 transportation tickets. Profit.

[Jurk]

I have all of them set to steel passager carriages. Still zero profit. The level is only at 5. That shouldent be too high for the area given the amount of usage I am needing from there. Most of land in germany still needs more transportation for what I am using them for. Resources needed for the railroads are good. As for the market the game is at a bad point after a bloddy europe war where I came out with bad rep and need time to let it come down.

[kgkong]

You have to put a demand on the goods. Start enabling PM in urban centers to use transportation. And start assigning industries to use railroad production methods as well.

Without a demand on the railroad industry outputs, you aren't gonna ever make profit.

[Jurk]

Originally posted by KingGorillaKong:

You have to put a demand on the goods. Start enabling PM in urban centers to use transportation. And start assigning industries to use railroad production methods as well.

Without a demand on the railroad industry outputs, you aren't gonna ever make profit.

I have already done that. All possible industry that can use railroad is using them and all urban centers are on them as well.

[Scheneighnay]

Originally posted by Jurk:

I have all of them set to steel passager carriages. Still zero profit. The level is only at 5. That shouldent be too high for the area given the amount of usage I am needing from there. Most of land in germany still needs more transportation for what I am using them for. Resources needed for the railroads are good. As for the market the game is at a bad point after a bloddy europe war where I came out with bad rep and need time to let it come down.

well, pull up the building screen of the railroad and you'll see what's going on with it.

What's the input cost and what's the output value? high input low output?
Like was stated before, I'm playing as China and railroads are the most productive buildings I have right now.

[Jurk]

The other thing i look at was the price of eng and bulit more for that and lower thier sell cost. But even at below market cost for that and other materials, cost of goods is at 6 and profit is set to 3. Unless i max out steal and eng and drop the price to blow 10 I cant figure this out.

[Scheneighnay]

Originally posted by Jurk:

cost of goods is at 6 and profit is set to 3.

doesn't mean much off the top of your head.
Gold input copper output? something in the middle?

[teron]

Originally posted by Jurk:

Originally posted by KingGorillaKong:

You have to put a demand on the goods. Start enabling PM in urban centers to use transportation. And start assigning industries to use railroad production methods as well.

Without a demand on the railroad industry outputs, you aren't gonna ever make profit.

I have already done that. All possible industry that can use railroad is using them and all urban centers are on them as well.

What is the transportation market price then? Since that is the output good of railways and how they make money.

Since if it is low, then their income stream is bad, which you could solve by making the following changes:
- build more industry that consumes transportation
- try to force a large population country into your market that does not have railroads, since their higher SOL pops will consume transportation
- change the passenger PM, since for example wooden carriages is trading off infrastructure for transportation. So removing it would reduce transportation and drive the price up

Also what is your price of services? Since that is an alternate good that can be used for the freedom of movement need. So if it is high, reducing it may cause some pops to shift their demand from transportation to it

Main thing is to not overbuild railroads, you can spam them early on when you first get them due to your pops demand will typically far outstrip the supply. After that you really should only be adding them for when you need the infrastructure, or the price of transportation gets to high.

[kgkong]

Originally posted by Jurk:

Originally posted by KingGorillaKong:

You have to put a demand on the goods. Start enabling PM in urban centers to use transportation. And start assigning industries to use railroad production methods as well.

Without a demand on the railroad industry outputs, you aren't gonna ever make profit.

I have already done that. All possible industry that can use railroad is using them and all urban centers are on them as well.

Screenshot a railroad in any of your states that is unproductive. Screenshot your engine goods page showing consumption and production values and the same thing for the transportation. There's bound to be something indicating why you're having a productivity issue.

[rubish 1]

you know i researched everything in the game and i completely never thought of adding passenger trains or any train upgrade

[Dray Prescot]

About what time is this, mid 1840s (maybe) or later? How much Tech have you researched? Most of the good Production Techs ( that need Motors and RRs) normally come after you research and start building RRs.

Did you slow down your construction activity a Lot?

That can cause a big shift in demand for iron and wood and other Construction goods, and cause a major drop in the profitability of those Industries, and therefore SOL of their workers.

Did you research the Laws that give you Institutions (and then BUILD those Institutions), that help control Radicals and Rebels in your country? It takes about one year to build one level of an Institution, so Level 5 in Law Enforcement will take 5 years and a LOT of Admin Centers for Bureaucracy (required for the Institutions) to build.

See Law Enforcement and Home Affairs Institutions in this Screenshot.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2900935330

[Dray Prescot]

Originally posted by rubish 1:

you know i researched everything in the game and i completely never thought of adding passenger trains or any train upgrade

You can add Wooden Passenger Cars as soon as you get RRs built, and then research Steel RR Cars which make Passenger Cars even better.

They also shift demand in RRs from the Mining/Industrial Sector to the Population area of your Economy, which should increase demand on RRs and make them more profitable.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2900943722

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2900943089

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2900941365

So 960 out of 971 demand from my Population is coming from my Steel Passenger Cars for my RR. Which is a lot more demand for Transportation than from everything else in my economy: 971 from Pops out of Total demand of 1.79k. Even I am still at -22% on RR/Transportation useage. Without Passenger Cars my demand would be a lot lower.

So switching to Passenger Cars PM on your RRs makes a BIG difference on the profitability of your RRs. ( see complaint that started this thread). Germany without using Passenger Cars is probably really BAD on his useage figure, which leads to his very unprofitable RRs. Which leads to his Rebel problem (eventually).

These screenshots are from 1886 as Scandinavia, but the affects are similar a lot earlier in the game.

PS I think that demand for Transportation is important to your Pops at higher SOL, so you NEED those Passenger Cars (Steel preferably) to reach higher SOL for your Pops!! (and keep them happier, i.e. not Rebels).