In this game communism actually works, so It´s an inaccurate simulation.

[Maximvs]

In this game communism actually works, not only in a democratic way but also in an economic way.

In reality it failed miserably in both, democracy and human rights and more so in economic efficacy and efficiency.

The problem I see is that this game threat marxists "political theories" or " political ideas" as they were laws of nature. As an example, in theory theocratic goverments should be the perfect goverment, because "is the goverment of god" what´s more perfect than that ? well... the reallity doesn´t work like demagogues, power mongerers or just naive people say or belive it works.

In a communism Economy is stagnant and desicions need a lot of burocratic layers: as an example to fire or hire a worker is not as "easily" as in a private factory, also to move a businness or change production ( make chairs instead of tables ) or slaughter more or less animals, even cut a tree, all the controls, forms, autorization to change or innovate even in emergency situation relies in some sort of burocratic control and accountable. Even change a truck tire ( buy the new one)

All of this make corruption rampart, and people working behind and parallell to the system, somethimes just no taking decicions for the fear of punisment or plain fatigue of burocratic work.

As an example China was pretty poor until it change the system towards a more liberal economic system ( while not full liberal, in game cound be interventionist) same for Vietnam, and all eastern ex-Russian satellite countries.

Cuba and North Korea are the only communist economies today and the results are pretty lean and obvious.

It´s hard to represent corruption, stagnation, autocraric despotism and plain stupidity in game. So for a " solution " for this I would suggest the following:

All factories and production buildings consumes bureaucracy. As all productive decicions are taken from goverment top to bottom and then the response have to go from bottom to top it required a lot of bureaucrats.

Efficiency of factories and RGO should be seriously diminished by default (underproduction, ineffciency, plain steal, politicking ) If you want to avoid this you should use an Autoritary decree ( a new one) or pay a burocratic cost.

That´s a solution for the game as it´s current game system works, it represent, more or less, the "historical materialism" de facto, and all humans in game are honest, robots and predictable in it tastes and decicions.

[RandyNewman]

Publicado originalmente por Supply Slut:

Publicado originalmente por Easterner:

Judeo-communism is a genocidal ideology that should be illegal…

So there it is, color me shocked. The lovely nazi propaganda, mixing anti-semitism with anti-communism so you neo-nazi losers can roll all your hate into one neat little package. Probably too hard to keep track of more than one group to hate at a time. That requires lots of thinking!

Well now that we've established that communism is THE biggest and most serious threat to you and your family, who else can we say are communists? Jews? Keynesianists?

Who's next?
This isn't gonna lead to declaring war on literally the whole world, is it?

[76561198996048619]

Publicado originalmente por Prown:

Publicado originalmente por Easterner:

1. I ain't wasting time reading that wall of text. The opinion of a random gamer isn't important enough to spend several minutes listening to it.

2. Communism isn't needed in an already industrialised nation. And even then, Venezuela is an example of a communist revolution in one.
Go ask them how well they are doing.

3. "If you don't agree with me, you have just been exposed to propaganda". Again, you cannot provide a valuable insight, so it's easy to disagree with you.
Every single time communism devolved into authoritarianism within less than a day.

Communist ideology is a complete failure that would never work the way it was intended, due to human nature of greed, group thinking and selfishness.
At the very least capitalism accounts for that and tried to put the innate greed to good use. And I'm not endorsing capitalism either.

Well I'm sure you are going to love living life ignorant, since you refuse to read anything larger than a tweet, so let me just say this one thing so you can comprehend before your ADHD kicks in

Communism hasn't succeeded because it hasn't been allowed to. If you want more info on that, try doing some research since I'm not going to bother educating someone who doesn't want to be.

You have absolutely no arguments and cannot even defend your position. So you use probably the most popular communist/liberal catchphrase:

"Mmm educate yourself sweaty!"

If you have to rely on me actively working hard to accept your veiwpoint, then whatever you propose is probably not worth the effort.

[76561198996048619]

Publicado originalmente por equinox1911:

Whats up with all the Capitalism fanboys in this thread that cant do anything but regurgitate
long disproven anti soviet propaganda.
Shouldn't they be consumed by their effort to prove capitalism is better in this game?

> Long disproven

Name me one source that "disproves" it aside from some reddit post on r/communism.

[Kimlin]

Oh dear God, why is this thread still open?

[Off-Suit Nines]

Publicado originalmente por Easterner:

Publicado originalmente por equinox1911:

Whats up with all the Capitalism fanboys in this thread that cant do anything but regurgitate
long disproven anti soviet propaganda.
Shouldn't they be consumed by their effort to prove capitalism is better in this game?

> Long disproven

Name me one source that "disproves" it aside from some reddit post on r/communism.

My dude, the USSR was not a socialist republic. The only people who think it was also think the Nazis were socialists because they put it in their name. What I'm saying is, you sound like a sucker. The kind of sucker who believes Nazi and USSR propaganda. The kind of propaganda that has been taught was propaganda in every non-politically affiliated college in the USA for the last three decades.

[kgkong]

Frankly, anybody who ends up insulting and name calling anybody else, regardless of what the topic of debate and discussion is, loses any respectable grounds to stand upon because they themselves are no longer discussing with maturity, respect and intelligence. Ad hominem attacks on someone's argument doesn't discredit the argument, and only makes you out to look like an angry bigot.

[76561198996048619]

Publicado originalmente por Off-Suit Nines:

Publicado originalmente por Easterner:

> Long disproven

Name me one source that "disproves" it aside from some reddit post on r/communism.

My dude, the USSR was not a socialist republic. The only people who think it was also think the Nazis were socialists because they put it in their name. What I'm saying is, you sound like a sucker. The kind of sucker who believes Nazi and USSR propaganda. The kind of propaganda that has been taught was propaganda in every non-politically affiliated college in the USA for the last three decades.

"Not real communism" - Bingo, I already expected you to say that.

Both the Germans and the soviets had socialist policies.

In Germany there were welfare programs, wealth redistribution, government-sponsored education and family planning. They weren't purely socialist (as "pure" socialism would be impossible to implement), but it was well-deserved to call their party Socialist.

USSR did all of the above and pushed it to the extreme, trying to completely destroy concepts of currency or market economy until they gave up and realized it yielded catastrophic results.

[RandyNewman]

Publicado originalmente por Kimlin:

Oh dear God, why is this thread still open?

Do you remember the movie "Falling Down" with Michael Keaton? The only person trying to be his friend turned out to be this weirdo neo-nazi, and then even THAT guy tried to kill him after he gave his ideas some mild pushback?

This is like the thread version of that movie. I felt bad for Michael Keaton, though.

[Off-Suit Nines]

Publicado originalmente por Easterner:

Publicado originalmente por Off-Suit Nines:

My dude, the USSR was not a socialist republic. The only people who think it was also think the Nazis were socialists because they put it in their name. What I'm saying is, you sound like a sucker. The kind of sucker who believes Nazi and USSR propaganda. The kind of propaganda that has been taught was propaganda in every non-politically affiliated college in the USA for the last three decades.

"Not real communism" - Bingo, I already expected you to say that.

Both the Germans and the soviets had socialist policies.

In Germany there were welfare programs, wealth redistribution, government-sponsored education and family planning. They weren't purely socialist (as "pure" socialism would be impossible to implement), but it was well-deserved to call their party Socialist.

USSR did all of the above and pushed it to the extreme, trying to completely destroy concepts of currency or market economy until they gave up and realized it yielded catastrophic results.

The USA has socialist policies. The Qing monarchy had socialist policies. Every single government in the world, literally ever, had some socialist policies. Also, predicting that I'm going to point out the obvious doesn't stop it from being obvious recorded historical fact. Using superficial similarity and your own ignorance of how the majority of the world's governments work to try and bully other people into buying your pseudo-historical twaddle suggests that any education you have given yourself on the subject has been purely masturbatory. Good day and good bye.

[Supply Slut]

Publicado originalmente por Easterner:

Publicado originalmente por Supply Slut:

So there it is, color me shocked. The lovely nazi propaganda, mixing anti-semitism with anti-communism so you neo-nazi losers can roll all your hate into one neat little package. Probably too hard to keep track of more than one group to hate at a time. That requires lots of thinking!

Jews made up majority of high-ranking positions in USSR, despite being a tiny minority of the population.

Jews were excempt from anti-religious persecution, unlike Christians.

Jews were given their own province, called "Jewish Autonomous Oblast". It even had a pride flag as its symbol.

Communist revolution in China had been heavily influenced by jewish soviet diplomats.

Communist manifesto was written by a jew.

If jews killing Jesus warrants saying "Judeo-Christian", then jews creating, spreading and enforcing communism makes it sensible to say "Judeo-Communism".

And don't call me a "Nazi" or try to hold any moral high ground. You are defending an ideology that directly resulted in death of tens of millions of people.

Right, the bolsheviks definitely didn’t seize Jewish properties, synagogues, and dissolve Jewish communities when they took power in 1919.

Over 80 years and morons still are parroting the same easily disproven nazi propaganda. Shouldn’t be surprised coming from someone openly admitting they can’t manage to understand 1000 words lmao

[kgkong]

Publicado originalmente por RandyNewman:

Publicado originalmente por Kimlin:

Oh dear God, why is this thread still open?

Do you remember the movie "Falling Down" with Michael Keaton? The only person trying to be his friend turned out to be this weirdo neo-nazi, and then even THAT guy tried to kill him after he gave his ideas some mild pushback?

This is like the thread version of that movie. I felt bad for Michael Keaton, though.

Best commentary and critique of this thread.
Also amazing movie, and yea, they did a great job making the viewer really sympathetic for his character. This movie needs to get rereleased.

[Lagom Lite]

Publicado originalmente por Easterner:

Publicado originalmente por Lagom Lite:

Don't start counting bodies for capitalism, whatever you do.

And just a heads up - while you're absolutely right that millions have died in PR China and USSR due to terror, prison conditions and outright mismanagement, you shouldn't use Stephane Courtois' heavily criticized "Black Book of Communism" for the exact numbers. if you want to seem intellectually honest.

Some poor people dying in capitalist countries is not an equivalent of systemic genocide.

You retarded communists always have the same answers:

"Real communism has never been tried"

"Look at the advancements USSR made" [whilst invading and plundering other nations]

"That didn't happen, and if it did - they deseved it"

"Six gorillion people die from capitalism every year" [in some poor African countries]

Also, there are countless sources that point to the aforementioned numbers, some give bigger and some give smaller estimates, I gave you the most commonly accepted ones.
It's difficult to track actual numbers when the governments of those countries actively suppress them.

Don't straw-man me, I'm not a communist. I'm critical of authoritarian communism AS WELL as of predatory capitalism. Millions of people die every year for lack of fresh water - not because fresh water does not exist where they live but because they are privatized, bottled and sold to western markets. This is a modern evil that is a direct result of unquestioning obedience to those trying to peddle unfettered capitalism as humanity's only choice.

If you MUST put an ideological tag on me, you could call me a "classic social democrat" or maybe a "modern democratic socialist" (Bernie Sanders). But I'm not a radical, I'm not a communist - I'm firmly in the anti-cruelty, pro-democracy camp. I don't care if you call yourself a liberal, conservative or socialist. I care about what you're trying to actually do.

But I detest labels. They lead to people picking a team and defending "their side" instead of approaching facts with a cool head and some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ humility.

[Lagom Lite]

Publicado originalmente por KingGorillaKong:

Publicado originalmente por RandyNewman:

Do you remember the movie "Falling Down" with Michael Keaton? The only person trying to be his friend turned out to be this weirdo neo-nazi, and then even THAT guy tried to kill him after he gave his ideas some mild pushback?

This is like the thread version of that movie. I felt bad for Michael Keaton, though.

Best commentary and critique of this thread.
Also amazing movie, and yea, they did a great job making the viewer really sympathetic for his character. This movie needs to get rereleased.

Michael Douglas (not Keaton) :)

[curtadamsCA]

This thread is making me think of Tom Lehrer's song National Brotherhood Week. https://youtu.be/184MD9S69vY

[76561198996048619]

Publicado originalmente por Lagom Lite:

Publicado originalmente por Easterner:

Some poor people dying in capitalist countries is not an equivalent of systemic genocide.

You retarded communists always have the same answers:

"Real communism has never been tried"

"Look at the advancements USSR made" [whilst invading and plundering other nations]

"That didn't happen, and if it did - they deseved it"

"Six gorillion people die from capitalism every year" [in some poor African countries]

Also, there are countless sources that point to the aforementioned numbers, some give bigger and some give smaller estimates, I gave you the most commonly accepted ones.
It's difficult to track actual numbers when the governments of those countries actively suppress them.

Don't straw-man me, I'm not a communist. I'm critical of authoritarian communism AS WELL as of predatory capitalism.

> Authoritarian

All communism outside of some wet dream is authoritarian. But your need to specify this tells me something about you.

Millions of people die every year for lack of fresh water - not because fresh water does not exist where they live but because they are privatized, bottled and sold to western markets. This is a modern evil that is a direct result of unquestioning obedience to those trying to peddle unfettered capitalism as humanity's only choice.

There we have it.
"Six gorillion people die from capitalism every year" [in some poor African countries]

Africans are too busy bonking each other with wooden clubs to actually do something about foreign companies buying up all of their limited supply of water. Not the fault of the system, but of lazy people and corrupt 3rd world governments.

If you MUST put an ideological tag on me, you could call me a "classic social democrat" or maybe a "modern democratic socialist" (Bernie Sanders). But I'm not a radical, I'm not a communist - I'm firmly in the anti-cruelty, pro-democracy camp. I don't care if you call yourself a liberal, conservative or socialist. I care about what you're trying to actually do.

But I detest labels. They lead to people picking a team and defending "their side" instead of approaching facts with a cool head and some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ humility.

Well, people of your alignment tend call everyone disagreeing with you a "Nazi" or "Supremacist", no matter what their actual beliefs are.

Plus you have been clearly and *softly* defending communist ideology so my assumption had some grounds.