In this game communism actually works, so It´s an inaccurate simulation.

[Maximvs]

In this game communism actually works, not only in a democratic way but also in an economic way.

In reality it failed miserably in both, democracy and human rights and more so in economic efficacy and efficiency.

The problem I see is that this game threat marxists "political theories" or " political ideas" as they were laws of nature. As an example, in theory theocratic goverments should be the perfect goverment, because "is the goverment of god" what´s more perfect than that ? well... the reallity doesn´t work like demagogues, power mongerers or just naive people say or belive it works.

In a communism Economy is stagnant and desicions need a lot of burocratic layers: as an example to fire or hire a worker is not as "easily" as in a private factory, also to move a businness or change production ( make chairs instead of tables ) or slaughter more or less animals, even cut a tree, all the controls, forms, autorization to change or innovate even in emergency situation relies in some sort of burocratic control and accountable. Even change a truck tire ( buy the new one)

All of this make corruption rampart, and people working behind and parallell to the system, somethimes just no taking decicions for the fear of punisment or plain fatigue of burocratic work.

As an example China was pretty poor until it change the system towards a more liberal economic system ( while not full liberal, in game cound be interventionist) same for Vietnam, and all eastern ex-Russian satellite countries.

Cuba and North Korea are the only communist economies today and the results are pretty lean and obvious.

It´s hard to represent corruption, stagnation, autocraric despotism and plain stupidity in game. So for a " solution " for this I would suggest the following:

All factories and production buildings consumes bureaucracy. As all productive decicions are taken from goverment top to bottom and then the response have to go from bottom to top it required a lot of bureaucrats.

Efficiency of factories and RGO should be seriously diminished by default (underproduction, ineffciency, plain steal, politicking ) If you want to avoid this you should use an Autoritary decree ( a new one) or pay a burocratic cost.

That´s a solution for the game as it´s current game system works, it represent, more or less, the "historical materialism" de facto, and all humans in game are honest, robots and predictable in it tastes and decicions.

[Kimlin]

Soooo are all of the Marxist on here European?
Just curious.

[Dark Sun Gwyndolin]

Postat inițial de Kimlin:

Soooo are all of the Marxist on here European?
Just curious.

I'm Canadian, despite my tag, and I'm not a Marxist; we have irreconcilable differences on religion and democracy. I just think it's worth pointing out what early communist philosophers actually proposed, and how little the actual implementation had in common.

Like I said earlier, I always wonder what would've happened if a western, first-world far-left ideology, such as syndicalism, was what came to power instead of communism.

[Agent Ulgrin]

I mean, I don't think any Paradox game is that realistic considering you can do world conquests as extremely small countries in every single game including Vic 3. I don't think Paradox like communism or fascism that much but there are still fun fascist and commie paths in HOI4 and here as well, and I don't see why people need to be penalized for picking these paths in a video game

[Egrace]

Postat inițial de Dray Prescot:

Communism in Russia, China "worked" by getting rid of populations that they could not control by killing or sending them to concentration camps by the multiple TENS of millions.

Lol, what a numbers. Killing tens of millions people.
Man, learn history. Stop trusting the exploiting class. Look at the Temple of Democracy, USA. The country with the highest prison population in the world. Both in absolute and relative to country population numbers.
Boo, bloody capitalists!

Postat inițial de Maximvs:

In a communism Economy is stagnant and desicions need a lot of burocratic layers: as an example to fire or hire a worker is not as "easily" as in a private factory, also to move a businness or change production ( make chairs instead of tables ) or slaughter more or less animals, even cut a tree, all the controls, forms, autorization to change or innovate even in emergency situation relies in some sort of burocratic control and accountable. Even change a truck tire ( buy the new one)

There is no government in communism. What bureaucracy are you talking about?
You better read something about communism before writing about it.

[Dark Sun Gwyndolin]

Postat inițial de Egrace:

Postat inițial de Maximvs:

In a communism Economy is stagnant and desicions need a lot of burocratic layers: as an example to fire or hire a worker is not as "easily" as in a private factory, also to move a businness or change production ( make chairs instead of tables ) or slaughter more or less animals, even cut a tree, all the controls, forms, autorization to change or innovate even in emergency situation relies in some sort of burocratic control and accountable. Even change a truck tire ( buy the new one)

There is no government in communism. What bureaucracy are you talking about?
You better read something about communism before writing about it.

You're sure you're not confusing it with anarchism? A communist government will absolutely have a beauracracy, except at the local scale (like the Hutterite colonies near where I grew up in Manitoba, which was my first exposure to communism).

[Fatbill]

Bunch of over-read ivory tower faux intellectual huckesters in here.

Communism/socialism can never work in the real world, because the real world has actual people, and is not just a bunch of unrealistic pipe dreams on a page.

People are greedy, self-serving, selfish, and will grab as much wealth and power, under any system, as the "rules" allow them. That is human nature amongst those that "want power".


Venezuela, has/had one of the "softest" communist/socialist systems the world has ever seen, and, at the beginning, the world's largest oil reserves, and a bunch of massive advantages, including a very high standard of living and high levels of international investment when Big Idiot Hugo took over. Venezuela nationalized every major industry over several years, the government "owned" all of the means of production.

And it is an utter failure.

Big Idiot Hugo and his cronies ran that entire country into the ground (and killed democracy), while making themselves rich inside of a single generation. There is and has been massive inflation and consumer goods shortages in Venezuela where there were none before. And massive gasoline shortages, in a country with the world's largest proven oil reserves. And 7 million Venezuelans fled the county. The main national oil company was on the verge of losing the ability to extract their own oil until a couple years ago, and production is still 85%+ below historic levels. (They had to pay non-US oil services companies in oil, to keep their oil infrastructure running.)

They have had to reissue their own currency 4 times in 10+ years, because inflation made existing currency worthless. Their bonds are literally worthless. They have reverted to using the US dollar inside their own borders several times as well (consider HAVING to use another country's money because yours is useless). Consider that statement on your financial system.

Socialist/Communist states always fail, or they become large prison camps like N.Korea.

That is reality and not a computer game.

[CraneOQuill]

Cringe

[D34DLY]

instead of being a butt hurt complainer, mod the game to be how you like. go whine about politics somewhere else.

[Augustine]

Postat inițial de Bardin Goreksson:

And of course, lassiz-faire capitalism never had any human rights problems.

Postat inițial de Bardin Goreksson:

Postat inițial de equinox1911:

Also, the command idustry of the USSR did work.
It idustrialised the biggest nation in 20 years (1919 -1939) to a point where it was able to defeat the european axis. Furthermore it had a strong showing from ~1955 -1965 providing most of its citizens with moderrn housing and amenities.

That's a good point. The Soviet regime was oppressive and inefficient, BUT it was far less oppressive and inefficient than the Tsarist regime that proceeded it. Only a handful of communist countries, like East Germany and North Korea, were true hellholes. Countries like Cuba and Vietnam weren't really any worse than western-aligned dictatorships like Chile or pre-reform South Korea.

This is just objectively false. The Communist regime of the Soviet Union expanded the Tsar's secret police, invented the mobile gas chamber, genocided countless ethnic minorities, and starved their own people through a combination of aweful forced cooperatives and intentionality.

[shrekening]

Postat inițial de equinox1911:

Also, the command idustry of the USSR did work.
It idustrialised the biggest nation in 20 years (1919 -1939) to a point where it was able to defeat the european axis. Furthermore it had a strong showing from ~1955 -1965 providing most of its citizens with moderrn housing and amenities.

I wouldn't really say they defeated the Axis on their own by any means. Along with that throwing human waves of soldiers to just be killed off is not really defeated the Axis. The USSR literally did not value human life, they used ammo on any troops who didn't advance and lots of their soldiers went into battle unarmed hoping to take German weapons. You are also bragging about something in 1955-1965 that most other European countries had managed to do without communism.

[Tasteless]

Tell that to Soviet China.

[DinoMight]

kekw at all of you

[RandyNewman]

Seriously, I wouldn't touch half of these posts with a ten foot pole.

You already lose the investment pool as soon as you enact a Council Republic. The few perks from the Planned Economy Law that you're expected to switch to afterwards doesn't come anywhere close to making up for the budgetary loss from losing your investment pool. The "Government-Run" production method that the Planned Economy Law unlocks doesn't know wtf it's trying to do. It just turns the bureaucrat pops into capitalist pops without the investment pool payments. In theory, you could end up with billionaire bureaucrat pops who are even richer than the capitalist pops were under laissez faire (yeah totally how it works in practice, right?) Any savings you might make from switching to the Government-run production method and downsizing "ownership" pops are lost from the forced auto-subsidizing that the law forces you to do. Most players just leave it on the Worker Co-operative method (which in rl, most people feel is an innocent and even desirable business model, because it usually is).

Just some very unpolished, but alternative routes you can take your country in to make your 100th playthrough a little more interesting.

Core gameplay aside, the game doesn't really explain a single thing about Marxism or what it is, or who Marx was; let alone doing the same for descendant corollaries and revolutionaries, like Lenin. The game just showcases a growing labor movement existing during the Victorian Era... when it was at its peak. Not even with much historical context, just a couple generic flavor events. You're left completely ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ignorant.

...That's it.

But that's not good enough.
That's still not good enough.

I need to get on the Steam forums and whine about how there's not enough propaganda in this video game! The game needs to make it clear to everyone that this *thing* they don't even teach me is PURE evil! And it needs to PUNISH the player for going anywhere close to that route! It needs to make the game PAINFUL for you! And there needs to be mountains of corpses on the screen when this happens!
I liked this series better when it only showcased innocent colonialism! Surely nothing objectively worse ever happened under the British Raj's rule!

Hey, I heard the developers who make Call of Duty run their story script by a Pentagon advisor, and then they tell them to add or remove things from the story! Maybe Paradox should have to run everything by a military advisor, too! Or maybe by the State Department! Maybe EVERY game developer should; then we'd only have THE TRUTH in our entertainment products!

[RandyNewman]

OK, I'm sorry for all that, but... this is dumb

[AmesNFire]

Postat inițial de RandyNewman:

OK, I'm sorry for all that, but... this is dumb

It's a lot of people simply repeating what they were told without considering the historical, political, or economic contexts. Also a lot of cold war propaganda and general ignorance on the topics; as educated populations tend to ask too many questions regarding the status quo.