How useful is slavery?

[MoldyPickle]

?

[Kayeka]

It's not. You want to get rid of it ASAP. You want those pops to earn a wage, pay taxes, and go to school so that they can earn higher wages and pay more taxes.

[MoldyPickle]

Originally posted by Kayeka:

It's not. You want to get rid of it ASAP. You want those pops to earn a wage, pay taxes, and go to school so that they can earn higher wages and pay more taxes.

then whats the point in it

[kesat]

Depends on the nation. But usually not useful - or only useful for a short period of time up until you get your economy running. So pretty much only useful for uncivilized nations for a short period of time.

Usually slavery is about high productivity in your farms, mines and loggin camps due to low wages. Which means you can mass-produce wood and cloth early on to decrese cost of building supplies e.g.

Originally posted by MoldyPickle:

then whats the point in it

To make it more difficult for certain nations? It's another problem that your nation needs to solve in the long run. Just like isolationism. Or having consumption-based taxes.

[MoldyPickle]

Originally posted by MoldyPickle:

then whats the point in it

To make it more difficult for certain nations? It's another problem that your nation needs to solve in the long run. Just like isolationism. Or having consumption-based taxes. [/quote]
ah right

[MoldyPickle]

♥♥♥

[teron]

It also gives the land owner IG political power, with slave trade being a +50% and legacy slave trade being a +25%.

Plus the England will sometimes go to war to ban slavery, so not having it reduces a reason they could attack you.

[Zeromentor]

They aren't useful, they work on Sub farms making little to no money, just like serfs, and don't work factories or anything else. Break their chains, free the serfs and start pumping up your factories.

[Aggris Abernathy]

Slaves can not pay taxes but free people are able to pay taxes. The slave owners save money by not having to pay slaves but the government does not profit from the slaves. However I notice the government employs slaves for building so I would assume it might make things cheaper but you make more money by making people free anyway.

[State Line Crosser]

Originally posted by Aggris Von Abernathy:

Slaves can not pay taxes but free people are able to pay taxes.

Something about this line is deeply amusing.

[Many-Named]

if you have a nation with no so much pop growth and that only likes certains ethnicities, importing slave is viable imo. Playing as Egypt right now and I would kill for a few boatloads of slaves to fill my iron mines in sinai.

[MoldyPickle]

Originally posted by State Line Crosser:

Originally posted by Aggris Von Abernathy:

Slaves can not pay taxes but free people are able to pay taxes.

Something about this line is deeply amusing.

damn maybe those taxation is theft ppl werent lying

[Zero, Dark Knight]

Originally posted by MoldyPickle:

then whats the point in it

The developers never properly represented the historical slave trade or population needs as it was supposed to be a mechanic which is "100% purely bad, and you're bad for playing with it on."

For example, let's say 1 pop needs 1 grain every 1 week.
Slaves have no income
Peasants have income

You have 100 pops.

10 Land owners.
90 Slave pop.

You consume 10 grain.

You remove slavery.
10 Land owners.
90 peasants.

You consume 100 grain.

Now if this game was accurately representing things, you'd have some other modifier for slavery, like unhappiness, or nations unwilling to deal with you, but no. Your "Punishment" is that these people do not consume your good (no income.) get no wage (no income, taxable).

You're punished purely in the most basic, senseless, illogical way, but one which really truly hurts the game mechanics and systems you engage in.
Which is not historical. These people -did- have needs.

- hope this helps explain why the system isn't working and why slavery is poorly represented.

[Jostarus]

Originally posted by MoldyPickle:

Originally posted by Kayeka:

It's not. You want to get rid of it ASAP. You want those pops to earn a wage, pay taxes, and go to school so that they can earn higher wages and pay more taxes.

then whats the point in it

Sounds like slavery with extra steps

[lubed_assassin]

Originally posted by Zero, Dark Knight:

Originally posted by MoldyPickle:

then whats the point in it

The developers never properly represented the historical slave trade or population needs as it was supposed to be a mechanic which is "100% purely bad, and you're bad for playing with it on."

For example, let's say 1 pop needs 1 grain every 1 week.
Slaves have no income
Peasants have income

You have 100 pops.

10 Land owners.
90 Slave pop.

You consume 10 grain.

You remove slavery.
10 Land owners.
90 peasants.

You consume 100 grain.

Now if this game was accurately representing things, you'd have some other modifier for slavery, like unhappiness, or nations unwilling to deal with you, but no. Your "Punishment" is that these people do not consume your good (no income.) get no wage (no income, taxable).

You're punished purely in the most basic, senseless, illogical way, but one which really truly hurts the game mechanics and systems you engage in.
Which is not historical. These people -did- have needs.

- hope this helps explain why the system isn't working and why slavery is poorly represented.

Slaves are very profitable the game has changed but doesn't explain what it changed.

Slave pops consume more not less and their wages go through all the other pops employed in the building so taxes are still paid. They probably only start to consume less when every pop in your country is wealthy enough.

141k Slaves subsistence Consume 45 Grain
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2995594469
149k Laborers Subsistence 39 Grain
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2995594522
149k Yankees = Workforce of 34.2k
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2995594522
141k Slaves = workforce 70.5k
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2995594469

[teron]

Originally posted by lubed_assassin:

Slaves are very profitable the game has changed but doesn't explain what it changed.

Slave pops consume more not less and their wages go through all the other pops employed in the building so taxes are still paid. They probably only start to consume less when every pop in your country is wealthy enough.

141k Slaves subsistence Consume 45 Grain
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2995594469
149k Laborers Subsistence 39 Grain
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2995594522
149k Yankees = Workforce of 34.2k
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2995594522
141k Slaves = workforce 70.5k
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2995594469

The comparison between slaves and peasants working on a subsistence farm is more of a special case. Since you are comparing slaves who are a low SOL and their needs paid for from the building profits to peasants who have a consumption multiplier of 0.1 in their definition file.
Which means that peasants only consume 10% of their actual needs, since the assumption is that they tend to make most of their own stuff for their own consumption.

The main benefits to slavery in game are the following:
-law wise they can be imported
-higher workforce ratio then other pops
-only needs paid for by the building, so its higher profits go in dividends to the building owners making them wealthier. So good for your shopkeepers, capitalists and aristocrats only

The downsides to slavery in game are the following:
-Those extra profits that buildings have are paid in dividends to the owners, which means as the government you don’t tax them until you pass Proportional Taxation or Gradual Taxation since those are the only two tax laws with dividend taxes
-They consume less then went you compare to a labour pop
-They block the movement of pops from transitioning from peasants to labours, which increases their SOL and thus their education access early game. With education access driving literacy, and thus effects how pops can qualify for certain better professions
-They don’t pay taxes so less income for the government
-Gives a reason for certain GPs to decide to declare war on you to end slavery