Beginner question

[Hab3on]

I am not new to paradox games , but i am new to the victoria serie. I am playing the tutorial with sweden and i would like to form the scandinavian nation. I already have Norway since the start, but Finland has an Union with Russia. Is there a way to snatch Finland from the hands of Russia? What should i do, improve relations with finland until the option to make they leave the russian union and join yours pop up or finding powerful allies and try the military way? what else?

[VoiD]

I'm not sure if there's another way, but you could try unlocking central bank to finance one of the big superpowers as you increase relations to +80, get a commercial pact, and try to use an obligation to make them sign a military treaty with you, then declare war on russia to steal their puppet calling in your big friend(s).

Also, it's probably a good idea to prepare for that war with trench infantry, frag cannons, possibly some opium for first aid too, it might get messy.

Oh, and a great general with stacked attack and/or defensive bonuses makes a huge difference too.

[Dray Prescot]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/529340/discussions/0/3470612993485394037/

I think that you need Denmark (at least most of it, i.e. mainland, not Greenland or Iceland, or any other colonies), with Finland Optional, plus Norway and Sweden to form Scandanavia. (see below, particularly the "need 11 states")

You add Finland whenever/IF you get it.

here is a part of discussion (or chat/informal conversation) I had with @Thineboot about how he formed Scandanavia (zea means Zealand, jut means Jutland, 36 means 1836, 41 means 1841) (I asked him how he formed Scandanavia)

zea in 36, jut in 41 + schleswig-holstein
you'll need 11 states
was 1 short, had to fight DEN again in togo to get iceland
missed lübeck, I've managed it in a prior try to grab it before pussia
this time prussia has 1/3 of the country
schleswig will become SCA but not holstein
missed that when I only transferred overlord from DEN in 41
schleswig transfer is fine, it will become part of SCA
integrating is down to 2 years instead of 5
SCA vs SWE
letting DEN live makes them also colonize west indies

added:

Thineboot just told me that you need 11 out 15 States without the 4 Finish States in order to form Scandanavia.

[Hab3on]

Denmark looks somewhat more affordable, but russia has a huge army. Anyway the military option is the only way to get Finland? I mean is there the feature to diplomatically make them decide to switch partner?

[Dray Prescot]

I do not know enough about V3 to answer about getting Finland from Russia.

[Ratio decidendi]

You don't need Finland. Just take out Denmark; it's a lot easier than dealing with Russia. Sweden actually benefits from keeping Russia happy especially if you want to extract concessions from Prussia later (to reclaim your historical Pomeranian lands!).

If you are hellbent on taking Finland, you have to wait until much later and hope for the right balance of power to sway things in your favour.

[Hab3on]

Looks like unwittingly i already paved the way for that. Denmark has declared a rivarly against the netherlands while i am boosting my relations with the netherlands for later when i will have central bank. So maybe when i will begin the diplomatic play with denmark the netherlands will lay a hand. Anyway i am courious to see what happens if i boost my relationship with finland so i will keep spending influence on that

[Thineboot]

You need 11 states out of 15:
5 Sweden
3 Norway
2 Denmark
1 Iceland (DEN)
1 Schleswig-Holstein (Schleswig, Holstein, Lübeck)
3 Finland (RUS)

Unless you own Schleswig-Holstein, only Schleswig will become part of Scandinavia. Split states don't count.

Finland may try to become independent at some point but without a stronger helping hand they are doomed like any wanna be free state.

If you can go for Schleswig-Holstein before Prussia takes care of Lübeck.

Day 1 war against Denmark gives you the advantage of your bigger forces. Others may or may not interfere. If so check possible sway actions.
Make big friends and get rid of your infamy.
Keep an eye on your population. You need hands to dig ;)

To form Scandinavia you'll need more time than just a few quick wars - check your journal and society tech. But securing your position on European mainland asap makes your campaign much easier.

Let Denmark live apart from Denmark, and they will colonize for you, while you still have no idea what colonists even are - you can't do everything at once. When the time of unification comes, you will reap what they have sown.

[Hab3on]

thx all for the precious suggestions and good to know that by making a nation to capitulate you are going to get their colonies too :). I am courious to see how this will turn out

[a.s.banon]

We are all beguiners here

[Thineboot]

Lost the whole text...

In short:

Originally posted by tex_si:

thx all for the precious suggestions and good to know that by making a nation to capitulate you are going to get their colonies too :). I am courious to see how this will turn out

Unifying Scandinavia is no normal war were you capture individual states.
Finland is in a Personal Union with Russia and therefore not target of the unification of the lesser Scandinavian countries by Sweden. And since it's a unification, they will become part of the new nation.

Note that you have to have researched Pan-nationalism to be able to form new nations.

Still only scratching the surface of Vic 3...

[Hab3on]

shortly it is my first playthrough in the victoria serie, i am doing the tutorial with sweden and i decided to set a goal and see whether i was able to achieve it and that is forming the scandinavian nation. In my mind the scandinavian nation is composed by the states in the scandinavian peninsula but then i discovered this:

Originally posted by Thineboot:

You need 11 states out of 15:
5 Sweden
3 Norway
2 Denmark
1 Iceland (DEN)
1 Schleswig-Holstein (Schleswig, Holstein, Lübeck)
3 Finland (RUS)

and by the way finland is in a union with russia which looks like a big problem.

So now i have changed my interests toward europe and pheraps some colonization, but i will still keep influencing finland to see whether more diplomatic options become available by increasing the value of the relationship with them. Ideally i would like to form strong allies and then to see if it exists a diplomatic move to make finland change union partner. It is a fact i don't know yet all the stuff that happens when you increase your relationship value with a nation that is already in a union with another one.

I want to explore the features of the game and see if more diplomatic options become available by courting finland and see if it is possible to make them peacefully switch partner.

All in all the main goal is to better master the game for future playthrough with bigger and more complicated nations