The Qing Thread: How to play them best ?

[KFC-AI]

Dear all,

Thank you very much for your tips and comments. I did not expect this thread to become so popular.

Please note that I haven't been playing for a while, and my tips do not consider the newest updates and DLC. I have now cut some content to make this a more general guideline. Apologies for any mistakes I may have made, as I have never played version 1.7.

I have been playing as the Great Qing, and so far, I am still trying to figure out the best strategies. Can you please share any tips you have? I play with the AI set to normal aggression.

Here is what worked for me in the following order before update 1.7:

Ally with Russia early: Secure Russia as an ally to defend against potential British threats. War with the UK is often unavoidable. With update 1.6, you can choose to have an early war and defend your capital until the British tire out. I have never figured out how to fix Qing after losing the Opium War.

Tax luxury goods: Tax every luxury good while keeping military and government budgets low.

Build universities: Establish 15+ universities first to catch up with technologies.

Expand construction sites: Build 30+ Construction Sites. Next, progress towards iron,
lumber, tools, coal, steel, engines, and then railways.

Expand tea and opium production: Increase your Tea and Opium production.

Develop industry: Slowly build up your industry. Before establishing a large railway
network, lack of infrastructure will be a huge problem for Qing.

Rush key technologies: Prioritize Line Infantry and Railways.

Manage internal politics: Avoid upsetting the Scholar Officials/Landowners too early on.
Unban opium: Unban Opium as soon as you finish the Opium Crisis.

Address bureaucracy issues: Be aware that the Qing will have a problem with low bureaucracy capacity given the number of government administrations needed. Build up your heavy and paper industry first before expanding government buildings.

Expand carefully: Go slow and try to control Korea first for its lead and lumber. Vietnam is also a good choice for annexation as they are an accepted culture.

Shape China's fate: Feel free to shape the fate of China the way you like. However, I would not recommend going for wealth voting first, as it would be extremely difficult later on to pass census voting, while making a large portion of the population very angry.

Defend China: Remember, China has the most war potential out of all nations and can defend itself easily against encroaching colonizers. However, it can still be hurt by internal strife or a large coalition such as Russia, the British Raj, and Spain.

Additional Tips:

Improve Qing’s economy quickly:
Build as fast as you can and drive your economy forward with increased demand for iron, coal, wood, etc. But NEVER have so much construction going on that you go into debt. Once you stop construction, your economy will crash due to the decreased demand for building materials.

Minting and Taxation:
Once your economy is going, start to build up your government administration to increase taxing capability. However, the Qing empire is already the largest economy in the world, so another way to fill your coffers is to simply grow your economy as fast as possible to collect income from minting.

Gain recognition fast:
Ally with Russia to protect against Britain, then defeat Prussia. However, I have heard that 1.7 has completely changed the rules. A friend of mine finds it quite hilarious. Like, what, the Qing army has liberated India, burned down half of the UK, but somehow they are still not recognized as a great power?

Diplomacy and Expansion:
Given the size of Qing, you are perfectly fine being a peaceful power. However, the Qing empire will have a severe shortage of lead, lumber, rubber, and oil in the late game.
At the same time, the Qing Empire is an unrecognized, non-Western power, which means that most colonial powers will be extremely aggressive toward you. A coalition between the UK, Russia, and Spain is quite dangerous, especially since the Russian AI is determined to conquer part of China.

[Dray Prescot]

Qing might be able to throw the East India Company (EIC), also know as the British Raj, into their Rebellion Event chain by keeping them from accomplishing certain goals in a certain period(s) of time. This should help Qing, although it may also help Great Britain, if the EIC goes down and is taken over by Great Britain.

Start a game as the East India Company (EIC) to see what those conditions are.

I do not know what happens in these game events for the Rebellion.

I think it is related to the Sepoy Rebellion in real world history.

[Chiang Kai-Shek]

Getting rid of the Scholar-officials is the most challenging part for me. I would pass the following laws and recruit leaders to diminish their power. Those are the laws I pass as soon as possible

Landed voting
Agrarianism
Professional Army
Serfdom Abolished

I would also fire up the corn law event to get a market-liberal leader.

Recruiting generals also help reduce aristocrat's clout

Avoid building rural constructions because it creates more aristocrat jobs

[JUSTICE!!!]

i have the qing down pretty good myself, the problem for me is trying to get the heavenly kingdom to spawn as early as possible. not really having much luck getting it or when i get it it peters out immediately

[Isisius]

Escrito originalmente por JUSTICE!!!:

i have the qing down pretty good myself, the problem for me is trying to get the heavenly kingdom to spawn as early as possible. not really having much luck getting it or when i get it it peters out immediately

Interesting, so if you spawn it early you dont have the problem of having a huge economy with a bunch of states with massive output suddenly becoming unincorporated and needing years to incorporate again during which time your economy completely collapses.

[JUSTICE!!!]

Escrito originalmente por Isisius:

Interesting, so if you spawn it early you dont have the problem of having a huge economy with a bunch of states with massive output suddenly becoming unincorporated and needing years to incorporate again during which time your economy completely collapses.

no, the EVENT peters out. theres never a rebelion so i dont face that problem

[Mentat]

After checking through the Heavenly kingdom events chain, I found that as long as I got a core province even with 1 protestant, the event will be fired. Not even clergymen, just one random dude will ♥♥♥♥ up the Qing. The only cure I see is go to isolation, there is no other way, close boarder will not stop event immigration, but somehow isolation can prevent all these problems. I never triggered heavenly kingdom with isolation, but as long as I trade with others, there will always be some annoying pops came into Qing through migration. Be extra careful if ENG colonized Sakhalin island. since neighboring province also counts. Funny they coded the event chain in this way. I guess total separation can also stop the event. But I never tried myself. I am wondering if anyone has tried it.

[Dray Prescot]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2895074651

I was wondering, as someone who has not played as Qing, what the Heavenly Kingdom Event sequence (or Threat to avoid) was, and I recently as Scandinavia in 1870s, looked at Qing on the World Map and saw the above screenshot. Qing would have been/is an AI controlled Country. (I am playing a solitaire game as a Human Player).

Apparently, it involves losing control of big chunk of the country in the North and East in a major Civil War or Division. (see other messages in this thread, particularly recent above, for more Information).

added:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2895508429

If I am reading this right, keep ANY "Incorporated State" (besides Capital) in Qing, with a Protestant Pop, below 15% Turmoil to avoid Triggering Heavenly Kingdom Event. (Good luck in trying to keep low Turmoil in many States in times that are changing a lot in the whole World).

So the key things to avoid (at all costs) are: Incorporated States with Protestant Pop and >= 15% Turmoil in that State.

So if you are going to trade with Western or European Countries, do it with Countries that are ONLY Catholic or possibly Orthodox (like Russia), or Muslim countries (like the Ottomans or Middle East), NO Protestant Countries,

OR keep the Qing provinces/States that trade with Protestant Countries, Unincorporated or always VERY Happy, i.e. very low turmoil.

Also, it "probably" means that you do NOT want to take control of ANY States that have Protestant Pops in them, outside of Qing, since their Pops may then migrate to your home Qing States afterwards, even if you are trying to stop them from coming into Qing from the other Countries. (this depends a lot on how various Laws/Policies etc. and Game Mechanics work in controlling movement of Pops and Religions in V3).

Comments based on experience are welcome, for the sake of those thinking of Playing Qing someday.

one comment: Qing being a subject Country appears to avoid the Heavenly Kingdom Event, but that is a high price to pay, for one, not being considered a Great Power, as well as lack of control involved in being a "Subject" Country and economic costs there of.

However (see below) being a Subject Country contributes 20% to Shattering the Country Event Chain (which you want avoid).

But watch out for what happens when you try to leave Subject Status.

2nd added: Fragile Unity Event Chain for Qing at start of V3 (this would come before the Heavenly Kingdom Event Chain)

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2895527670

So Playing V3 as Qing has a LOT of challenges to overcome.

[Mikey]

It's greater than 15% not less than

[BRAWNDO]

i played them once and did very good with just standard strats. the big issue was that they are just like ottomans that they have fallen behind. but once i got munitions up and running i could kick everyones ass. but ignore the administration capacity. like the ammt of work that needs would take a century lol

[The Nichtnochter]

As a test I went for admin buildings as a priority while researching society research for minting, agrarianism law, & sewage infrastructure. Not exclusively admin, but ya know, a bit of construction sectors, a bit of this, a bit of that, then go ham on admin.

I ran out of infrastructure, a lot of states still had high tax waste, & I was 3 techs out of getting railways. This is with max ports for coastal state infrastructure too. Maybe you could b-line railways while prioritising admin...

but yeah, I think it's not worth it for sure. It's way more worth building up your states while you don't have railways so by the time you get rails your states have a good base that's worth getting more tax out of. I mean, I literally just sat around waiting for railways to come, not able to build anything else due to lack of infrastructure despite ports & sewage.

I bet unlocking railways is a good time to start easing in admin buildings, maybe not even build any before that, & 'easing in' means just that, don't go ham on them instantly at that point either.

Def go Romanticism first though for agrarianism subsidies. Even 10K from aristocrats per week adds up to hundreds of thousands over time. I like minting too for the same reason an extra 10K or so adds up over time, then switch to industry tech. I think it's fine to just let military tech spread entirely.

[lubed_assassin]

idk i skipped agrarianism and went straight to laz fare. by 1875 I had a billion GDP without trying too hard. I was just playing around, even went colonial, especially since colonization is based on population lol.

Just dont fight the opium war and do other things. With the massive demand you can create you can suck all the resources out of europe.

[RandyNewman]

Escrito originalmente por lubed_assassin:

idk i skipped agrarianism and went straight to laz fare. by 1875 I had a billion GDP without trying too hard. I was just playing around, even went colonial, especially since colonization is based on population lol.

Just dont fight the opium war and do other things. With the massive demand you can create you can suck all the resources out of europe.

Hey, I'm just gonna jump in, here:

How long did you wait to pick up colonialism? I wanted to beeline for it but I couldn't afford a 3k bureaucracy deficit. It didn't seem like it was worth building up a ton of government administrations at the very start of the game, either

[lubed_assassin]

Escrito originalmente por RandyNewman:

Escrito originalmente por lubed_assassin:

idk i skipped agrarianism and went straight to laz fare. by 1875 I had a billion GDP without trying too hard. I was just playing around, even went colonial, especially since colonization is based on population lol.

Just dont fight the opium war and do other things. With the massive demand you can create you can suck all the resources out of europe.

Hey, I'm just gonna jump in, here:

How long did you wait to pick up colonialism? I wanted to beeline for it but I couldn't afford a 3k bureaucracy deficit. It didn't seem like it was worth building up a ton of government administrations at the very start of the game, either

I did it right away, you can just put a consumption tax on services and raise taxes one level. Then get the next taxation technology and build some tax centers. Next I would get atmospheric engine and spam Iron mines to fund a massive construction build up. I'll do another quick playthrough to see how it goes

[RandyNewman]

Escrito originalmente por lubed_assassin:

Escrito originalmente por RandyNewman:

Hey, I'm just gonna jump in, here:

How long did you wait to pick up colonialism? I wanted to beeline for it but I couldn't afford a 3k bureaucracy deficit. It didn't seem like it was worth building up a ton of government administrations at the very start of the game, either

I did it right away, you can just put a consumption tax on services and raise taxes one level. Then get the next taxation technology and build some tax centers. Next I would get atmospheric engine and spam Iron mines to fund a massive construction build up. I'll do another quick playthrough to see how it goes

Yeah I might try that on the next playthrough (which I'll have to do, because the Hegemony Journal is bugged and won't give me the very last objective). I gained a modest share of colonial holdings, but I wasn't able to lock Europe out of Kenya. Dai Nam can't quite provide all my sugar needs by itself, so getting a few more African states in the next playthrough might help a lot

[lubed_assassin]

Escrito originalmente por RandyNewman:

Escrito originalmente por lubed_assassin:

I did it right away, you can just put a consumption tax on services and raise taxes one level. Then get the next taxation technology and build some tax centers. Next I would get atmospheric engine and spam Iron mines to fund a massive construction build up. I'll do another quick playthrough to see how it goes

Yeah I might try that on the next playthrough (which I'll have to do, because the Hegemony Journal is bugged and won't give me the very last objective). I gained a modest share of colonial holdings, but I wasn't able to lock Europe out of Kenya. Dai Nam can't quite provide all my sugar needs by itself, so getting a few more African states in the next playthrough might help a lot

Here's how it went. Mind you I have played a lot ^_^ and the AI is really crappy so.

Reconized Great Power Feb, 1838
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2896484660
Serfdom Abolished Dec, 1838
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2896484692
Colonization Dec, 1841
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2896484716
New Tax System March, 1844
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2896484750
Laissez-Faire Sept, 1849
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2896484778
Beat Up France for colonies June, 1851
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2896484797
Steel Construction May, 1861 - = GG as Qing
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2896484819
How the Colonies look winning the african scramble.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2896484847