Japan is super dissapointing

[Despicable Neutral]

Like seriously. They took one of the most densely packed periods in Japanese history and made it suck.

Alright, first you want to liberalize/open up trade. Well GOOD ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ LUCK because the combined political power of the shogunate (you play as the shogun though?) and the samurai (land owners and military) is 60%, and they can tank any resolutions. They're both hyper conservatives, the only difference is that the samurai are militant isolationists and the shogunate is just isolationist.

This leads to some really stupid situations. You know Hokkaido? The place in japan and right next to japan in this game? You can't colonize it because the shogunate is isolationist (and the intelligentsia have the world view of modern day liberals and think colonization is wrong), and since the shogunate is so powerful that the only thing that can rival their power AT ALL is the Buddhist monks at 20% (btw good luck getting anything useful out of them), Hokkaido almost always ends up in the hands of Russia.

Well, alright, but historically Japan WAS hyper conservative. So, obviously, the challenge comes from trying to weaken their grip? HELL YEAH IT DOES! IT PROVIDES MORE CHALLENGE THAN NECESSARY! THERE IS ZERO CHANCE OF OPENING UP YOU'RE ECONOMY! The closest you can get is a protectorate agreement with some place like the USA.

This game has NONE of the events that spurred on Japanese modernization, like the total defeat of the Chinese during the Opium wars or the forced opening of the ports by the Americans. So, Japan just stays hyper conservative with like, 8% intelligentsia and 10% peasants because apparently 30 million people don't have any political influence cuz they're poor.

But what if you try fighting the Shogunate the liberalize the country? GOOD LUCK! The shogunate has a ridiculous amount of political power, so if they radicalize they bring a lot of people with them (despite the fact that the peasants hate their guts). Additionally, the samurai are DEFINITELY gonna join because, again, almost identical political views. So, the samurai, which, may I point out, are the MILITARY, join the rebels, and now the military has rebelled and you have 5 divisions to fight 200.

But hey, on the bright side, if you tried to liberalize the country, you get over a million loyalists! That has to be good right? WRONG! Because the shogunate and the Samurai HATE any reforms that could be made, so loyalists can't convince them not to revolt. Additionally, you can't arm loyalists, because they apparently aren't loyal enough to FIGHT FOR THEIR OWN RIGHTS! LIKE JESUS CHRIST, America declared independence because taxes were too high, you gonna tell me that the anti authority Japanese peasants won't take up arms to ABOLISH SERFDOM!?

Plus, Japanese society is horribly simulated. Samurai weren't the ENTIRE military, they were a (usually(Sakamoto Ryoma my beloved)) conservative caste of warriors. To liken them to the entire military would be to underestimate the effect of regular warriors with guns. I mean, Christ, the entire reason warrior castes fell out of favor is because they couldn't keep up with the size of regular armies, and when guns that could pierce armor arrived, they almost entirely stopped existing.

Samurai only survived as a class because the Edo period was a period of unprecedented peace that reduced samurai to bureaucrats. The game could've shown the fall of the samurai in full detail as they reach the inevitable conclusion all warrior castes do, BUT NO, they didn't simulate any of these things in the game.

So, in essence, liberalization like during the Meiji Restoration is impossible because the shogunate faction is untouchable (even though you play as the shogun) because nobody except the rich matter, and also they can't be overthrown because they have the support of the entire military, which is made up of 1 singular militarist hive mind like this is stellaris.

Pls fix :(

[Ixal]

Not my experience.

Start by adding other factions to the government, even if that reduces legitimacy to get colonization.
Then try to attack the shogunate through institutions by switching out the police force to a professional one.
Removing serfdom would be a huge win, but usually that is too risky unless you at least marginalize the samurai.

All the time bolster the church to pull people from the shogunate. Once the church is strong enough add the church to your government (if you have not already) and remove the shogunate, even when its reduces your legitiamcy, and start suppressing them.

I got a event chain which let me tank the shogunates influence by underhand tactics.

[Shanor]

You do know that guys from paradox literally have done it on stream?

[Turius]

I started 2 games keeping the shogun and the samurai on government and trying to start building up the industry before trying to liberalize the country but the 2 times Russia just took Tohoku and Chubu... I can't defend vs Russia, it's too powerful

[Siontix]

You'll get better at the game as time goes on, if you keep gaining knowledge and experience. Best of luck!

[madmerlyn]

I'm in the year 1907 or so and have already completed the Meiji restoration on standard difficulty and ironman. I have like 8M radicals, but that's still not enough to revolt.

One tip I picked up, and it still took a ridiculous amount of time, but right from the start pump intelligenista by building all the logging industries you can in your capitol and setting them to use tools, that gets you a lot of machinists etc.

Once they get enough clout you can stick them in government (and maybe remove Samurai) and still have over 50% legitimacy, enough to try to pass landed voting, that's when political parties will come into play and you'll finally be able to get traction to deposing the conservative government.

[Prisoner 76561197992841073]

Originally posted by Despicable Neutral:

Word salad

Zero chance to open the economy? Obviously not - it's possible and I did it in the mid-to-late 1800s without any rebellions. Just play the game more dude instead of making these ridiculous and asinine claims. It is a challenge indeed, but like many challenges in Vicky 3 they are actually easy to overcome.

[Pᴀχ LLMCxDak]

Lol hard nation is hard. Use the mechanics in the game to your advantage to accomplish your goals. It's 1868 in my game, I'm still isolationist but have the 7th highest gdp in the world and am near fully industrialized with numerous colonies, a shogun at around 25% clout, a rising intelligentsia and industrialist block, a weakened samurai caste and a modern and large military. I keep having to pump up my construction industry and military to stop having a massive surplus. Quit trying to do everything from the off and be opportunistic. (That being said, you should restart until colonial resettlement has above 40% chance to pass as you you should do that as soon as you research colonialism.) Japan takes time to get rolling. 3 decades in and I'm just now at the point where I'm gearing up to vassalize the entirety of the pacific. All I'm seeing in your rant is that you lack patience and don't understand game mechanics or at least not how to use them.

[Billy Highway]

Watch Potato McWhiskey on Youtube. He's doing a Japan play-through and is doing just fine. He explains as he goes. He's certainly helped me understand more.

[Zeromentor]

The biggest issue here, if you ask me, is that there are nearly zero flavor events for countries. There are a couple that get cultural events for annexing similar cultures in your customs union, or some decisions to form nations.

The game is dreadfully bare bones compared to games like EU4, CK3 and Stellaris right now (and that last one is a sandbox, not based in/around history).

[Case]

how do y'all have enough qualifications for industry? this is my main trouble area right now

[Toblm]

It sounds like you are not using (or poorly using) the tools the game gives you to manage your IGs.

No you are not playing as the Shogun, or the Emperor. You are the spirit of the nation.
Yes the Landowners are powerful and conservative. Suppress them.
Yes, you need to change the ruling party to pass laws like colonization. Do it.
Major events didnt happen? A) It didnt sound like you had any success changing anything in Japan so why would something like the civil war or restoration fire. B) There are few scripted events. Period.

I'd go on but TLDR.... Practice managing your IGs better.

[curtadamsCA]

Wait, I thought every country was really easy and all of them play exactly the same as France? Could all those whiners have been lying to me? /s

Sarcasm aside, I haven't played Japan but I would expect there to be some challenges, and some of the proposals upthread sound right to me. I've forced through policies my government didn't like by temporarily adding another party to my government and taking the legitimacy hit.

In the "thinking outside the box" department, one poster got into a war with Great Britain - and lost, getting forced into Free Trade.

[joseph66hole]

Play East Africa and Conquer the Red Sea :(

[neppy]

I want EU4 type Mission Tree or more immersive event chain system in every major country.

[Alehkra]

Actually the Shogunate only opposes colonization laws if the IG leader happens to be pacifist. Otherwise they're neutral towards it, and the samurai actively support it. The only groups it actually angers without a pacifist leader is the Peasants. Getting a pacifist leader for the shogunate is definitely irritating (and a little...weird for a military government, but w/e), and I just restart when that happens right from the beginning. But by and large beating the Russians to Hokkaido is definitely possible; one game I even managed to snatch all of Sakhalin before they even started a colony there. But beyond that, just focus on industrializing and undermining the Shogunates power base. Beyond colonization it's vital to switch out of hereditary bureaucrats, peasant militia, and Serfdom, because those three laws give the landowners a combined +75% clout. The key is to carefully manage the samurai; pretty much everything you do will piss off the shogunate, but if you build up the wealth of capitalists and peasants, you can manage angry aristocrats. The samurai can be kept happy through high military wages, and doing the laws in a careful order. Professional military will make them super happy, so pop something they'll hate (like ending serfdom) while they've still got the approval boost.

It's a bit of a tricky game, and I've restarted a few times as I figure things out and learn. But in my current game it's 1881, restoration has been complete for 15 years, the landowners are the 4th most influential faction behind Intelligentsia, Industrialists, and Peasants in that order.

EDIT: Probably worth adding, the intelligentsia are first for a reason. They're the only other group with a major draw for aristocrats, so boosting them is a great way to undercut the Shogunate.