Upgrading Upgrade Kits – One of the biggest scams in Synthetik

[Simonsis13]

This is going to be a long one, tl:dr is stop upgrading your upgrade kits, it’s not a good idea

As far as I know most people consider Upkitting (I’m inventing that term now) to be a very basic and effective strategy to increase your damage output. I’ve even heard people refer to it as a minor exploit. In case you don’t know, each use of an upgrade kit gives 4 upgrade ticks – which each translate to 1% damage added to your weapon. Adding 50% power to the kit (hence by upgrading it twice) will add an additional tick to the kit. Now the strategy is to upkit a bunch and then never use the last kit of the stack ever again, giving all upcoming kits the upgrade bonus. And I think people should stop doing it. Here’s why:

First, since the damage bonus from each upgrade is additive, the effective value decreases with each new upgrade. The first 4 attachments add 5% dmg each to your weapon, making you “start” with at least 120%. The first kit then adds 4/120 % to your actual damage output the second 4/124 % and so on. What this essentially means is that the damage increase from each kit and thus the value of your Upkitting goes down with each. Or in other words, you don’t get as much damage as you think.

This is made worse by the fact that you don’t get you use the last kit you upgraded, meaning that you lose the damage from at least one of your kits. Most people I’ve heard talk about it seem to agree that 250% power is the right number for Upkitting which would mean that each kit gives 7 ticks. Now let’s assume you get 10 kits during your run before you get to LD. 4 of these are for the attachments, which means unupgraded kits would give you 24 upgrade ticks, or 12% dmg. With the upgraded kits you don’t use the last one, leaving you with 35 ticks, or 23% dmg. In my opinion this is awful. Even assuming 15 kits you only get 26 % more damage compared to unupgraded kits. Keep in mind that that doesn’t equal 26% actual damage output. It also means that you actually get less value of your kits until you found at least 7 kits (which usually is by the 3rd boss). (The extra kit chance is similarly negligible)

Second, Upkitting comes at a cost and I don’t think people realize how big it is. Getting an item to 250% power costs roughly 2k credits, which is about the price of an epic weapon/item in a shop. Or you could simply spend that money upgrading other items you have. If upgrading your kits actually results in you not being able to buy a weapon you wanted (or needed) then you’re just grieving yourself, same with the item. I’d argue that upgrading any good damage item (like twin link, shock Impulse, magic mac etc.) to 250% will give you significantly more damage than Upkitting could. Even if you don’t have those, just upgrading your starter items will go a long way. I don’t know how many people realize this, but those starters are absolute powerhouses.

Another slightly minor cost is that the kit takes an item slot. This will only be relevant later in the game, but I did have games where I found 5 Items I’d like to keep before the first boss. And I’m definitely not keeping an item that does nothing over anything good. Just a minor thing, but something to consider.

Third, no matter how good you are or what you plan to do, there’s always something wrong with Upkitting. If you’re new you won’t get the full scaling value and likely don’t even get to the 7 kits you need to make it worth at all. It will also hurt your early game by taking your money. If you intend on looping you will need the item slot more and damage doesn’t matter much at that point anymore. Basically, the time you actually get anything meaningful from Upkitting is from after the 2nd boss until the moment you beat LD. And anybody struggling with that part can’t afford to convert 2k gold into 11% dmg stat.

Now to give credit where credit is due, raider with his 60 dogtags comboing with credit gain to get you 9999 credits before the first boss may just need something to throw money at and since he gets 2 kits from the same talent, he might as well. Similar with Sniper who gets lots of money from headshots and he REALLY needs some extra damage against LD. On those classes Upkitting is justifiable, unless you got a lot of shops, or you’re very new or …

Anyway, raider gets a pass, maybe sniper too, anyone else really doesn’t want or can’t afford to upkit. I know everybody is free to do whatever they want and I’m not going to stop you but PLEASE stop recommending Upkitting to newbs or noobs. Or if you do, at least link them to this so they can build their own opinion. Thanks.

[Herr Morlock]

This topic was new to me, because I prefer to play it on my own (with my team-buddy) instead of looking at this forum.
I would not even consider spending money for something like upgrade kits (which do their job pretty well, without costly boosts) when I have to invest every dime in the items I started with, which I did choose on purpose and on which my playstyle depends. And even after upgrading those items, there are (most of of the times) at least some other useful random items, I found on my run (like healing crystals or rosarius which both might be worth for 1-3 upgrades), which I would benefit from, more than from additional 1-5% weapon damage.

So, that is that.

What I like about Synthetic is, that many different builds can succeed. My buddy does play in a completely different way than I do. While I always prefer passive items (if not playing demolitian), he does actually prefer active items. And we both have our times where we shine.
Both ways work. So, I guess there are many different ways to play this game.

Your arguments sounds reasonable, that those players who believe in "upkitting" might get it work for THEIR playstyle. But as your thoughts (and calculations) have shown, possibly not that much for different playstyles. Other players might profit more from other strategies about how to spend your credits.

PS: By the way, do you know how much that item section "effectiveness increase token" in the (class) main menu does change those dynamics? After all, it sounds very reasonable, that those "upkitting dudes" might invest one of their 4 (or 5?) points into that "upgrade kit" item, for sure.

PPS: I wanted to give you the "mad scientist" award for your elaborated and passionate thoughts, but sadly, I am out of funds, right now. So, at least, FEEL supported. ;) lol

[Simonsis13]

"might get it work for THEIR playstyle"
Please show me a playstile where you want to use your money in a way that makes you deal less damage with no other benefit.

"effectiveness increase token" give 5% item power which would just get rounded down and affect nothing.

[full stamina gaming]

The only good use I've found for upgrading upgrade kits is doing it once or twice if a) I've already found at least 3 and b) I'm waiting for a weapon I want to upgrade, just for the extra chance to not consume them

Upping these to 250% is pure madness, and I've seen people genuinely recommend putting a power token on them, which makes me want to die forever

[De Espirit]

Yeah, this is one to throw onto the pile of "stop giving narrow builds and post-loop strats to pre-loop players." I can see this working if you're using modular weapons (or a demo with modular, sweet jesus), or you can coast on skill and have nothing better to do with your money, but that's it. Telling people to forego a huge chunk of money, an item slot, and all terminals by LD to squeeze maybe 20% more damage out of a gun is insane.

[Simonsis13]

I had played coop with soneone new who was told to upkit but not to keep the last kit. Smh my head

[BrUwU]

Originally posted by Simonsis13:

I had played coop with soneone new who was told to upkit but not to keep the last kit. Smh my head

I can see an argument at some point of getting rid of last upgrade kit, in favour of getting better item into that slot.
Okasionally i'll drop the last upkit for the item, if i'm relaying a lot on the items.