"Enable Controller" needs to go

[Tyrian Mollusk]

The controller support and UI are bad enough that it's not really acceptable to disable the mouse just because we want to use a controller. It also denies us options for using remapping tools out of game to fix the poor control scheme. Please figure out how to run both, like a real game.

Also, I haven't figured out how to change controller config yet. If that's not in the game yet, it needs to be, again, like a real game. The game is full of things that make it feel like the dev has no idea or concern for how people use controllers. Binding dash to clicking the left stick, for example, is pretty ridiculous. Setting controls should always be available, but devs that can't be bothered to make good controls in particular need to let us set our own so we can cobble together something that works without having to do it out-of-game and have the already poor prompts actively inaccurate.

[Tyrian Mollusk]

I have also had enabling the controller not actually work, which since you obnoxiously and incompetently disable the mouse and most of the keyboard, makes it impossible to actually do anything and forces you to quit.

[BlackjackGT]

They swear they will get controller support right in time for the console releases, but I've always maintained it's way harder to get controller support right in a game designed for mouse/kb from the ground up (Synthetik); then it is to introduce proper kb/m support into a game that was designed first for controller (Helldivers is an example)

Of course there are some games like How to Survive where the kb/m inventory maneuvering is so obviously controller centric, that a kb/m player wants to scream. :)

If they ever really want to get controller support right for Synthetik, I'd say they almost have to redesign the whole game around how its UI should work in controller and inventory manipulation (hotkey trays) is generally very different than for kb/m centric games.

[Tyrian Mollusk]

I don't agree, at least not so simply. Good controller support might not be amazing, but it can almost always be made to work pretty well. The problem here is not the mouse-first design--it's that the devs clearly do not actually care about controller play and don't know what to do and just stick some minimal things here and there from their misguided mouse-based mindset. The current state of the controller support definitely doesn't need to be as poor as it is.

As an example, when I was first playing, I got some item where I could plant charges and click on them to activate them. I'm on controller, so first of all, I have no idea what the game even wants me to do when it says this. Presumably I switch to free look, glacially drag the "mouse" to the thing, and press some button to click on it. I didn't get it to work, and didn't get the pseudo-mouse to really do anything in general, and there's nothing in the game that even says what's supposed to work... Anyway, poor support aside, that mouse+click mechanism is obviously blatantly unacceptable in an action game, and is just never how you would use this item on controller. You would more likely hold a button, point in the direction of the charge, which would highlight it, and releasing the button with it highlighted would activate it. This plays fast and feels good.

I can't speak much to your inventory management, because I don't know yet how that is supposed to work in Synthetik. I played some m&k to get an idea of how the game is intended to work (after trying initially on controller thinking support was supposed to be remotely ready), but have since gone back to controller because m&k play for this kind of game feels awful to me, and on controller, you just have no idea how the game intends things to work (or if they even do), since you functionally have no prompts or mouse-overs (the game needs a proper pause menu that includes the character and weapon stats panels and where you can manage things instead of obnoxious side bars while the mission clock runs--that's just player-hostile design and insultingly DOA on controller, besides the issue of burying all the game information in mouseover tips which controller players can't easily see). If you mean the items on the bottom-left of the screen, normal controller UI would be pressing something to switch focus to those, moving the highlight with the dpad, and using face buttons for the various tasks (A to pickup/drop for moving, B to return focus to the normal game/inputs, X twice to recycle+confirm, Y to drop, rest of controls stay as normal so you can move and shoot if you need to). I don't see anything there that needs (or really even benefits from) mouse support, but I'm far from knowledgeable about the game.

There are often good controller ideas to handle game play. People who think controllers limit game play are usually myopic--controllers have been used in a great many games and for a very long time and people have forgotten a lot of the techniques as k&m people started getting so condescending and prejudicial towards controllers. Unfortunately, while things like Steam's controller support and xpadder give us some tools to work around inconsiderate developers, there are several key techniques that have to be done by the devs to work, like the above ray-casting selection, holding a button to range an ability/throw, or smart context actions. Developers really need to do the job and build good controller play for their game. Battlerite, Path of Exile, and Guild Wars 2 could play great on controller but are saddled by devs who don't want them to, so they can only be ok with a lot of end-user cobbling together. Synthetik appears to have controller-hostile devs, and the game is going to get seriously burned down in reviews if they go to console because the game just feels hostile when it obviously should feel natural. Honestly, from what I've seen so far, free look mode should be removed entirely, because it's a huge crutch devs get complacent on and forget how badly it actually works.

This game ought to play quite well on controller, as far as I can tell. Certainly, a quick xpadder config (mouse using RS and spring mode, LB tap for dash, RB for eject/reload, RT for firing, LT for 1, etc) feels a lot better as far as the basics, but makes it annoying not being able to see the cursor easily for aiming since it stays at the edge of the screen (the built-in RS spring is way too close, though).

Either way, we REALLY need the game to not just outright disable the mouse and keyboard just because we turned on controller support. A real game shouldn't need to even turn "on" controller support: just take whatever input we give you, switch prompts to match, and let us play.

LATER EDIT: I built controller inventory management with Steam Input. The inventory definitely isn't even a challenge as far as having a decent controller UI. I don't see any reason the game can't play great on controller, except its devs.

[Orpħée]

+1
Lack of ability to change controls on the joystick kills all game enjoyment for me. I just want shooting using TRIGGERS not bumpers, am I asking too much? Also, the camera is too sensitive when playing with a controller, we need a slider to control its speed so that everyone can adjust it to their own way of playstyle.

[Datora]

+1 It need better contoler support.

And i have a weird bug - i cant switch off Free look, even if i press LT on my X box gamepad.

P.S Game is amazing <3

[Tyrian Mollusk]

Originally posted by Datora:

And i have a weird bug - i cant switch off Free look, even if i press LT on my X box gamepad.

Have you tried holding down right stick? That will normally toggle free look mode. Easy to hit by accident, sadly.

[Datora]

Originally posted by Tyrian Mollusk:

Originally posted by Datora:

And i have a weird bug - i cant switch off Free look, even if i press LT on my X box gamepad.

Have you tried holding down right stick? That will normally toggle free look mode. Easy to hit by accident, sadly.

Thanks man, you are a life saver! <3 It work perfectly.

I was looking into controls menu and also google it - but there was no any info about holding right stick option... :/

[Rapptture]

Originally posted by Tyrian Mollusk:

Originally posted by Datora:

And i have a weird bug - i cant switch off Free look, even if i press LT on my X box gamepad.

Have you tried holding down right stick? That will normally toggle free look mode. Easy to hit by accident, sadly.

This should be pinned to the front since we can't remap buttons, this saved my game too. Ty

[Tyrian Mollusk]

The Steam Input config I uploaded for 360 controllers switches (among some other things) RS click to a double-click, so the mode lock is harder to do by accident. You can do the same with other controllers (you can remove the binding entirely, too, if you don't care about keeping the "point of interest" markers).

You can't remap things as much as the game needs, but you can definitely improve it some. I actually play on an input config that uses the mouse-mode interface rather than the controller interface, and it feels a lot better (aside from various necessary quirks). I wish I could use a hybrid config, but the bonehead "enable controller" thing forces it to be either-or.

[harryorlsen]

Random fixed free look controller bug, once active I cannot disable the free lock while playing with my XBOX 1 controller and I have to restart the game.

Dislike: variable weapon sensitive control with the right thumbstick depending on the used weapon. Please use only one control layout for the right stick.

EDIT: Happy New Year and thanks for this very nice game!