New Lifepool system - am I missing something?

[Skatters]

Hey, I've loved this game since release.

I was one of the few people who actually liked the turn-time system... but I've been enjoying the recent changes too. However, I've had a few games now where the lifepool system has lead to rather anticlimatic ends.

In the old system - if just one dude managed to survive to the end of, say, the glittering mines, they could reset the Chaos Generator and then revive the otherwise lost/defeated party. Making some great memorable moments.

Now, when you run out of lifepoints you are screwed. Even if one character manages to make it through the dungeon all alone by the skin of their teeth - there is no reward for their heroism. The party stay dead... and we just... watch?

Am I missing something obvious? :-)

Adding a party revive at the completion of a whole questline could perhaps solve this?

[Jay-Nic]

If you run out of lives, you run out. But you can get more by finding generators. In the future, we'll have alternative systems too.

In addition, if you have a sanctum: it will protect you from death and sacrifice itself.

[TheSilentGamingGuy]

Yeah I am not happy with this. just did a run through myself. Too much to focus on now with the chaos meter and its stats changes as well as the heart meter. seeing these random generators pop up is now mind boggling only got past first stages quest.It feels as if I am now getting side tracked for dubious reasons, still a fan of the game. not enjoying this new addition.

[raythr]

whats the point of this?
"The life pool decreases when a character is revived"
we already lose a heart, dont we ?

also we need the generators for chaos and scourges already

i dont like the new lifepool changes neither and i think theres too much focused now into the generators

so its basically like a 2nd main quest
"find the generator in your curent zone, or die a gruesome death"



"In addition, we can now support future potential features like say - variable main quest lines so you're not always guaranteed the same story, or new random encounters that could raise or lower Chaos in unexpected ways."

this sounds great tho, hope they keep on iterating and adding new things

[Skatters]

Originally posted by Jay-Nic:

If you run out of lives, you run out. But you can get more by finding generators. In the future, we'll have alternative systems too.

In addition, if you have a sanctum: it will protect you from death and sacrifice itself.

Yeah I enjoyed the Sanctum change, nice little addition. I dont feel like I can comment too much on the changes yet, I have to play a lot more as theres some big differences. I liked the time management of the old system, but I think with a little relearning, this new way is just as enjoyable and even allows more exploration if you dare.

The generators at the END of a quest-dungeon (glittering mines, etc) needs to give lifepoints back. Our blacksmith was a sole survivor, stopped the generator, and we all stayed dead. You wont find a bigger hardcore rogue-like junkie than me (I laughed at the early RNG complaints), but I think thats just unrewarding gameplay. No one will stay in a multiplayer session watching one guy plod around the map hoping to find a lifepoint somewhere.

I think giving lifepoints back, or simply a free party rezz, at the end of a Main Quest could solve this without changing anything particularly drastic.

Because those are some of the best moments. When you know your beat - and then one imposisbly lucky party-member manages to make it through. As it is - they might as well quit and restart for bothering to survive. Its quite underwhelming for the accomplishment - its meant to be an epic adventure! A deadly and constantly failing one, but with those moments!

Standard caves and the like dont matter. I'm all for stories being brutally ended. But for completing a main quest (not just one of the objectives, but the whole string) should drag the defeated team back into the action - even if theyre not fully healed.

P.s.
Can I say one more time how much I love your game? Top notch work.

[Jay-Nic]

So to clarify: you don't lose a life when you die, you spend it to revive. So, no: there is no "double taxation."

Vision scroll are now more valuable. They'll help you unlock the generators. We are going to be adding a "range indicator" on them too so you know exactly what you're unlocking. I'll keep an eye on this thread. Curious to know the delta between people who are succeeding fine, and the ones dying too much.

Also, keep those ideas about life increases coming.

[Skatters]

Yeah there is no double tax...

Aye aye Jay... will try a few more games with a mentality of 'find them darn generators asap before anything else' and see if its just a new approach to the game. I do think the situation I described will still occur however, and its a shame as it will increase multiplayer drop outs.

I'll give it a whirl though, before pretending I know any better. After all, whats a few more deaths? ;-)

[TheSilentGamingGuy]

So I did 3 runs today, all failed at kings maze, scourge popped up and chaos reached level 1. I could not find any constructs and the ones I did find were too early in the game and going back to reach them was pointless. I ran out of tents way before hand. relying on healing my party failed in king maze. I can only conclude not enough turns before the timers hit for chaos and scourges. By that it is hard to gain experience at higher levels when enemies give little ha ha. good times.

[Spills51]

Dev please be sure to know what mode they are playing on if your keeping an eye out. It's hard for me to beleive all these guys are having this much trouble on easy mode.
For gods sakes please, PLEASE dont mess with any other mode besides easy. It's already lost it's challenge as is.

[TheSilentGamingGuy]

I complain but I retry till something works or my luck changes. Very Frustrating heh

[[OO] coldsteel]

So, when a character dies in a dungeon it asks if you want to revive them by using a life. But when one dies outside a dungeon there's no option to revive them, even if you have the lives to do so. How is this supposed to work? I can't see any way to revive them. Do I have to go into a dungeon to do it or is it just glitched currently?

[TheSilentGamingGuy]

you run out of hearts there is no revival sources, they said scour the are to find a thing that will give you a heart back thus a revival? I just had a game I only got 1 character to level one, only found the one thing through quests that reduce chaos by, 1 life or -1 scourges, few turns later the chaos set in and I got ambushed by the beast which used up all my hearts. going to keep an eye discussions. It is very annoying. This was on the easiest mode. Need a break.

[TheSilentGamingGuy]

lvl 0-1 getting ambushed by lvl 2s not fun

[amyisham]

I *just* made it past the Kings maze on the old version before the update, but starting in the new mode, I like that I don't just run out of time and every where I went I got caned by chaos monsters. I like that I have more options, get rid of a scourge, reduce chaos, gain a life. But post King's Maze I would normally stock up on Godsbeard and suddenyl can't afford it. I have seen some tips recommending having a herbalist and finding Gos'beard as a way to get through - I have ugraded the pipes of all my characters but it looks like I need a group heal option instead. Maybe I need to balance the reduce chaos with gain a life more but its hard to keep track of another thing - I only just understood a lot of the stats etc.

I say this because I get killed near Hasta and I have run out of lives for one of my characters. No more options to revive to I guess the game is over as there is no way I could fight everyone with just two characters! I took side quests and sea caves to level up and get more loot but it's end of the road for me this play. I might start again with a herbalist and try that.

[TheSilentGamingGuy]

yeah I tend to now upgrade herbalist pipes only for the fact that heals way more at high lever and just skip out and the let the other 2 level normally when it comes to the experience grant plant. using 1 on when your herbalist has lvl 3 pipe is major or instant level gain at lower levels. Just need to find the right balance. Need to try the next supposedly drop chaos quests from towns...

[Skatters]

Originally posted by Spills51:

Dev please be sure to know what mode they are playing on if your keeping an eye out. It's hard for me to beleive all these guys are having this much trouble on easy mode.
For gods sakes please, PLEASE dont mess with any other mode besides easy. It's already lost it's challenge as is.

I play on all the difficulties depending on what I fancy. When I say like a challenge, I mean it. Easy mode is easy, sure - but that doesnt really change what I'm talking about. Its a mechanical situation that can occur on any difficulty with no way forward. Regardless of difficulty, I think reaching the end of an entire quest-chain should give a party-revive, or something. Because no one is going to stay in multiplayer watching a single player plod about the map looking for a lifepoint that may or may not be just over there somewhere. You'd just resent him for surviving, which is a bit against the spirit of making it through despite the odds. Maybe thats too easy a fix, sure, but I think something needs to happen.

That said, I've still to fire it up for further testing/approaches...

I do agree that group heal seems almost mandatory for this new system... whereas before I'd happily go without a herbalist on Journeyman diffc.

I agree with your sentiment though... I definitely dont want the game to be easier. But I do want it to remain rewarding as well as punishing. Where as I'd like Master difficulty to brutally challenge the number crunchers amongst us. The scenario I described was just disappointing, to be honest. In the old system, you'd reset the chaos, and revive the failed crew because that option would be allowed again.

I'm not saying my solution is a good one... but I think theres something 'whiffy' about it as it is. ;-)


Edit:
To be fair, had a few more games today - it doesnt make the game more difficult per se, and it doesnt happen often. Its fine if you're playing alone or with friends, as you can just put it down as a disappointing end... it just feels like a bit of a let down for pulling the team through when they had otherwise lost. Its more of an issue for random sessions, for dropouts etc.