Honest feelings on the game.

[naciabell]

While I have a difficult time, putting it into words, I do believe that this game, my attention so much and I think so many others because of simply how unique it is. But also importantly? This game has massive potential, that goes beyond even its plans.

Games like this are simply not made anymore. You honestly just don’t see companies trying to make anything like this in this modern era. A game like this is something you would see attempted in the 90s. Or very early 2000s but not anymore. It’s kind of…Well a forgotten breed so to speak.

If this game does succeed, turns out as good as we are hoping? It could quite possibly usher in a revival of games of this scope and depth and detail. And that I think is what attracts any of us to it.

This game is simply fascinating to learn about and see in motion. Simply because it doesn’t really seem like it’s not feasible, yet here it stands before us all.

Is it lacking a lot of its planned content? Yes. Are things still rough around the edges? of course. Does it clearly needs quite a bit more work? Absolutely.

But despite all that even what we currently have to play , if properly built on as they speak on, may allow more depth and interaction with the world and those within it and ways to affect it, then most AAA and big budget RPG’s in the past decade. And that is honestly impressive.

I have seen plenty people point out this is both relaxing to play, yet very addictive and stressful knowing perma death hangs over our heads. And honestly, I cannot agree more.

This game can become something incredible. So here is hoping that happens.

Sorry for how long this is.

[naciabell]

Originally posted by SickaSalmon:

Originally posted by Jester_hell_696:

I suppose it depends upon what you mean by similar, I mean it is similar in terms of the developers scope of vision and long term commitment to that vision, in that sense they are similar.

To me the "free-ness" of the DF isn't where they are similar, they're both passion projects, the devs might have gone different ways about realising it, but that core is the same.

They also both call themselves not just games but "simulators".



I understand this, but I've long held that the popularity of a view has no baring on how correct it is, just because 90% of customers think EA should be more developed doesn't mean they are correct.

Having worked in the service industry, the customer is NOT always right, they are quite often wrong and it should be more acceptable to tell them when they are wrong.

To use an analogy, people brought an Impossible Burger (EA title) and some of them are pissed off after taking a bite and realising it didn't taste exactly like meat (Finished product), but that's not the fault of the restaurant.

I'm just another dinner pointing out that they ordered the impossible burger and it does list the ingredients on the menu that the Impossible Burger is a meat substitute (in development).




This here is basically the only reason I even replied to this topic in the first place, I had no problem with people feeling buyers remorse or calling it over priced for what it is, those are fair opinions.

But saying "scam" irritated me, nothing about it struck me as a "scam", since a scam is an intentional attempt to swindle or defraud someone and I see no such intention of that from the devs.




it is not your fault that the game is in its current state, but you were NOT fleeced, scammed or ripped off.



That you are objectively incorrect.




To expand upon Naciabell and TheSeaMoon's point.

Can you point to a specific feature that was showcased that is not in the update 1-12 section of the roadmap?

Mage tower is update 2.

You can already collect resources.

Resource management is update 2 and update 5.

Hire minions is update 10.

NPC interactions, update 1, update 4, update 6, update 8 and update 10.

Enchant items is update 2.

Procedural world gen is already in and is also update 5.

World progression is update 5, update 6, update 8 and update 9.

Economy is update 1, update 5 and update 9.

Religion/spirituality/worship is the entirety of update 11.


Like Naciabell says, the closest that I can see is that "bear and raise children" is in the"wealth and legacy" pack, but that isn't a "showcased" feature, in the showcase it only talks about NPC's having children, not the player.


Honestly, it seems like you assumed the Wealth & Legacy packs features where main game features.

Bear and raise children.
Gain lands and estates.
Manage minions & resource production.
Earn Titles.

That is all "nobility" stuff, not mage stuff, now in some settings mages are nobles but nobility is not an inherent aspect of being a mage.

Now the features of the Master of Magic pack would be a more fair assumption.

Recruit and train Apprentices.
Create Golems and Constructs.

Are far more standard mage fair then nobility stuff, but even then, those features were not listed on the store page.

This cash grab is totally a rip off. Its shills like you that make it an obvious scam.

It’s pretty clear you don’t even know what a scam is. And that even though multiple people have provided proof alongside me that you don’t know what you’re talking about you’re still holding onto it, when you don’t have a single thing that you can even bring up any more relate it to one.

The game is very bare-bones. Yes. But the developers told us that it would be, and they explained what they removed and why.

Just give them time to actually work on the game and prove if it will work or not.

[bruce777]

Originally posted by surenanime:

Originally posted by Jester_hell_696:

To conclude, I had one simple demand - I came here seeking entertainment in exchange of money. That basic need was not met after I had paid them what they asked for. That's all your Honour.

That is insufferably shallow.

[Jester_hell_696]

Originally posted by SickaSalmon:

This cash grab is totally a rip off. Its shills like you that make it an obvious scam.

Just because you say it is doesn't mean that you're correct.

The burden of proof is on the one making the claim, YOU have to prove it's a scam, nobody else has to prove that its not and you have failed to prove your claims.

Originally posted by surenanime:

I can't believe this forum is still open.

So long as people keep saying stuff that is objectively incorrect the conversation will continue in some form or another.

Originally posted by surenanime:

It's a game, not some working theory on molten salt reactor. None of this matter.

I do agree that none of this (directly above) matters.

Originally posted by surenanime:

The game doesn't make sense to have a crafting system without production,

Skyrim has crafting without production, production being a reference to larger business/industrial scale endeavours.

Originally posted by surenanime:

tower without estate,

The devs explicitly state that you have to get the local nobles permission to build your tower on their land, you know, like how feudal societies actually worked, the noble owns the land and you have to get their permission to use that land.

Originally posted by surenanime:

romance without formal relationship,

Romance doesn't NEED a formal relationship, what about the time honoured position of the bard, rolling to seduce everything from the innkeepers daughter to the dragon?

Also, the games current character sheet tracks spouse and you will be able to get married as that has been stated by the devs, marriage is a "formal" relationship, just no kids, like Rimworld had for years.

Originally posted by surenanime:

hiring minions for what?...

The hirelings of update 10 are your "party" members, hired mercenary types, hirelings come after update 8 which lists "Army Battles".

Presumably having some merc's to act as ablative meat shield would be desirable in an actual military scale conflict?

Originally posted by surenanime:

I mean where is the basic dungeon? All I saw was an abandoned mansion and more abandoned mansion with combat being excruciatingly slow.

The entirety of update 7 is just for dungeons.

Update 7 Dungeons

-Enhanced Visuals and Variety
-New Rooms and Interactions
-Added Puzzles.

Originally posted by surenanime:

This is supposed to be a game, it is supposed to entertain people and it isn't entertaining at all in its current state for me even if I were to give the leeway that this is an EA.

it is a game, but it is a simulation game, not an arcade game, this means that the game is built off of progressive systems.

Each system needs the system before it to be implemented before the following system get implemented.

They could spend a ton of time implementing all the different dungeons types, but without any underlying system for those dungeons to plug into they'll just be that same as the current dungeons with different room visuals.


Nobody is saying you are wrong for not enjoying what it currently is, they're saying your wrong for calling it a scam.

A scam is an intentional effort to defraud or swindle someone out of their money, there is no evidence what so ever that this is the case.

Originally posted by surenanime:

I couldn't care about immature fanboys who love to conform to their idols and mock those who don't, I am not a fan of anything

You're the only one that come off as immature, I find your sate about fan boys funny, I didn't even know about this game until a week before its EA release so not a "fanboy".

Also, fanboys are also the most rabid and unforgiving of customers, look at the fanboys reactions to Star Wars for an example, they turn fast when they feel crossed even slightly, your response is closer to a fan boys response then mine is.

And I very much doubt that you're not a fan of "anything", I've seen lots of people claim as such be never seen it be truthful even once.

Originally posted by surenanime:

To conclude, I had one simple demand - I came here seeking entertainment in exchange of money.

There is your first mistake, you don't get to make demands, not even in exchange for money, they showed what they had to offer and you were free to buy or not depending upon you preferences.

In a very big bold blue text box right at the top of the store page, directly above the buy button is this.

Originally posted by Store Page:

Early Access Game
Get instant access and start playing; get involved with this game as it develops.
Note: This Early Access game is not complete and may or may not change further. If you are not excited to play this game in its current state, then you should wait to see if the game progresses further in development.

Originally posted by surenanime:

That basic need was not met after I had paid them what they asked for. That's all your Honour.

To which your case would be dismissed by the judge and you would be ordered to pay for their legal fees because of the giant NOT fine print warning I quoted above.

Originally posted by surenanime:

You guys are free to verbally mock me now, I've had enough.

It is not about mocking you, never has been, it is about correcting your incorrect interpretation of the facts.

Edited: to fix a miss quote

[ARiMA]

Originally posted by naciabell:

So now you’re trying to deflect and make it about entertainment.

No, not true. I ended my first post on this saying, "I bought this game to make happy memories, instead I ended up invoking by depression."

It's a game, just a game. It was always about entertainment. I felt having the ability to romance would be in the game but formal relationship would be in the DLC, ability to build tower but management and production would be in DLC, to be asinine and misleading. Are you going to incarcerate me for this opinion? Go ahead. For the rest of your comment - I couldn't care less. Let them finish the bare minimum of a game first.

[Jimmy James]

Someone providing feedback that they didn't feel they got their money's worth or don't have faith in the project can be valuable if you listen to why - in this case it's pretty simple: the store page is selling something that doesn't exist. Easy fix right? Just change it to reflect the current state of things and list the rest as what's to come. Make it very clear what's going to be in DLC. All expectations met.

If you only listen to why a couple dozen people like the game or have faith in it you might miss why 8000 or 80000 people didn't buy it.

I said this earlier but only 25 or so are playing this at any given time. I don't know if it sold well on release but what it does mean is either people aren't having fun with it or aren't inspired to give it a shot.

[ARiMA]

Jester_hell_696, I did not read your entire post. But I keep getting this reply that I called the publishers as scammers. Maybe because English is my third language that we are having this miscommunication, I never called anyone as a scam here, I used the words "asinine" and "misleading", I used the word "tricked" when it came to the points that most of the fun stuff were behind a pay wall. I don't see what's so much of a big deal here is.

[naciabell]

Originally posted by surenanime:

Originally posted by naciabell:

So now you’re trying to deflect and make it about entertainment.

No, not true. I ended my first post on this saying, "I bought this game to make happy memories, instead I ended up invoking by depression."

It's a game, just a game. It was always about entertainment. I felt having the ability to romance would be in the game but formal relationship would be in the DLC, ability to build tower but management and production would be in DLC, to be asinine and misleading. Are you going to incarcerate me for this opinion? Go ahead. For the rest of your comment - I couldn't care less. Let them finish the bare minimum of a game first.

Except that, that is not what you said, in your previous comments. You claimed that it was listed on the steam page as part of the base game, but then they turned around and turned it into DLC to sell to us.

Which is completely untrue as multiple people have no pointed out. You’re just grasping at straws and trying to cover up how you embarrassed yourself, by acting condescending and certain you had some big point when you in fact didn’t.

You have spent this whole time trying to blame the developers and accusations of scamming, when none of that is going on because you didn’t bother to actually read the steam page before you purchase the game or do even basic research.

And now here you are trying to clean it up, and act like someone is attacking you.

[Jester_hell_696]

Originally posted by Jimmy James:

Someone providing feedback that they didn't feel they got their money's worth or don't have faith in the project can be valuable if you listen to why - in this case it's pretty simple: the store page is selling something that doesn't exist. Easy fix right? Just change it to reflect the current state of things and list the rest as what's to come. Make it very clear what's going to be in DLC. All expectations met.

But they're wrong, it is all easily seen on the store page as is, other peoples lack of reading comprehension does not change that.

Everything that is actually listed on the store page is planed as a part of the 1-12 updates

This mentality is why hot coffee that is sold as hot coffee has to have a WARNING CONTENTS HOT label on it, and I think its the wrong approach to life and society.

Originally posted by Jimmy James:

If you only listen to why a couple dozen people like the game or have faith in it you might miss why 8000 or 80000 people didn't buy it.

Nobody is saying people can't say they didn't like it or why they didn't like it.

What I at least am saying is that they are wrong about what they assumed to be in the game.

Being angry that stuff that was never explicitly mentioned or listed on the store page isn't planned for the main game release is unreasonable.

Nothing listed on the store page is part of a planned DLC.

Originally posted by Jimmy James:

I said this earlier but only 25 or so are playing this at any given time. I don't know if it sold well on release but what it does mean is either people aren't having fun with it or aren't inspired to give it a shot.

Or, like many EA titles, people buy it play it a bit, then leave it to come back later after some updates.

I went 5 years between playing different versions of Project Zomboid, when I first got the game there was literally only one street in the game, I played for a bit then I put it down and waited for it to develop, now there are multiple towns to visit, in depth crafting systems, seasons etc.

I did similar with Rimworld, I played the first couple of releases after kickstarter the I put it down for a couple years and came back to a much more fleshed out game.

IMHO this is the best way to approach Early Access, you buy it and play a bit, then intermittently return every few update to see how it is progressing and if you feel enough progress has been made, you play some more.

Originally posted by surenanime:

Jester_hell_696, I did not read your entire post.

Hard to discuss the topic if you don't fully read the replies.

Originally posted by surenanime:

But I keep getting this reply that I called the publishers as scammers. Maybe because English is my third language that we are having this miscommunication, I never called anyone as a scam here, I used the words "asinine" and "misleading",

Re-reading you comments, you are right, I apologise you did not use the world scam, but.

Originally posted by surenanime:

I used the word "tricked" when it came to the points that most of the fun stuff were behind a pay wall.

Use of the word "Tricked" in reference to a commercial purchase is very much along the lines of saying that the product is a "scam"

Originally posted by surenanime:

I don't see what's so much of a big deal here is.

Because nothing on the store page is behind a DLC paywall, everything that is listed on the store page is part of the planned update 1-12 for the main game, this could be a problem with English being your third language.

To go back to crafting, while crafting and production can be used somewhat interchangeably they aren't always used like that.

If a single individual makes something you would generally say that is was "handcrafted", if you where to talk about a "production" it would generally be in terms of larger scales, here is an example of each one.

Craft: he crafted himself a sword from the iron he had mined.

Produce: he was asked to produce arms and armour for the kings men.

[naciabell]

Originally posted by surenanime:

Jester_hell_696, I did not read your entire post. But I keep getting this reply that I called the publishers as scammers. Maybe because English is my third language that we are having this miscommunication, I never called anyone as a scam here, I used the words "asinine" and "misleading", I used the word "tricked" when it came to the points that most of the fun stuff were behind a pay wall. I don't see what's so much of a big deal here is.

as has been established, all of that, is untrue beyond your opinion, that you find it asinine. Which is your opinion, but you could’ve, simply, as said read the steam description to be aware that it was not going to be in the base game as you assumed, and then tried to argue, they said it would.

And calling someone a scammer and calling their product, a scam are the exact same thing which is what everyone takes a problem with because you are factually incorrect, and all the evidence supports that.

[ARiMA]

Originally posted by Jester_hell_696:

Because nothing on the store page is behind a DLC paywall

Am I wrong to hold the opinion that the game will have relationships and romance but marriage or family will be behind a DLC?

Originally posted by Jester_hell_696:

Craft: he crafted himself a sword from the iron he had mined.
Produce: he was asked to produce arms and armour for the kings men.

Am I wrong to hold the opinion that production in a tabletop game should go along with crafting and not in a separate DLC as it is not a 3D graphic extensive game?

For every Project Zomboid there is also Freeman Guerrilla Warfare. I am not implying that this game is bound to fail, I am saying that I deeply disappointed with what I bought. Is that a crime now?

Originally posted by naciabell:

And calling someone a scammer and calling their product, a scam are the exact same thing which is what everyone takes a problem with because you are factually incorrect, and all the evidence supports that.

Naciabell, please stop assuming that you speak for everyone. As far as I am aware of, nobody voted you to be the voice of all the game enthusiasts here. I clearly gave an opinion of a product which you took personally (I don't know why) and have been attacking me incessantly.

I find that the ability to have a relationship will be in the game, but a formal relationship will be in a DLC to be asinine.

I find that the ability to craft will be in the game, but the ability produce will be in the DLC for a tabletop game to be misleading.

I have more to say about why this game has been a disappointment for me so far, but these are my opinions. What are you going to do? You are going to troll me for this? Hire a lawyer to sue me? Maybe, banish me from playing any game.

[Wirewing]

Wow, I knew this topic was going to be a hot mess the moment someone lionized 90's games to compare this one to it. When someone evokes the 'games of the 90's' they are always about to make a series of excuses for a crap game. 90's games sucked. Nostalgia is dumb. Standards have gone up. Consumer sentimentality is self affirming brainwashing. You couldn't be less honest.

But oh, to see the shills have a go at the actually honest comments! Hilarious. You know word count does't make you correct, right? Their simple responses, depicting a growing annoyance with how obtuse the shills must make themselves in their TLDR tribute novels is really gold. Just pure gold. Never change. When you become a meme you're no longer respectable but, definitely a treasure to behold.

[naciabell]

Originally posted by surenanime:

Originally posted by Jester_hell_696:

Because nothing on the store page is behind a DLC paywall

Am I wrong to hold the opinion that the game will have relationships and romance but marriage or family will be behind a DLC?

Originally posted by Jester_hell_696:

Craft: he crafted himself a sword from the iron he had mined.
Produce: he was asked to produce arms and armour for the kings men.

Am I wrong to hold the opinion that production in a tabletop game should go along with crafting and not in a separate DLC as it is not a 3D graphic extensive game?

For every Project Zomboid there is also Freeman Guerrilla Warfare. I am not implying that this game is bound to fail, I am saying that I deeply disappointed with what I bought. Is that a crime now?

Originally posted by naciabell:

And calling someone a scammer and calling their product, a scam are the exact same thing which is what everyone takes a problem with because you are factually incorrect, and all the evidence supports that.

Naciabell, please stop assuming that you speak for everyone. As far as I am aware of, nobody voted you to be the voice of all the game enthusiasts here. I clearly gave an opinion of a product which you took personally (I don't know why) and have been attacking me incessantly.

I find that the ability to have a relationship will be in the game, but a formal relationship will be in a DLC to be asinine.

I find that the ability to craft will be in the game, but the ability produce will be in the DLC for a tabletop game to be misleading.

I have more to say about why this game has been a disappointment for me so far, but these are my opinions. What are you going to do? You are going to troll me for this? Hire a lawyer to sue me? Maybe, banish me from playing any game.

how about you stop playing the victim card and acting like I’m attacking you or that anyone is. All I or anyone else have been doing is correcting you.

And here again, you’re acting condescending towards me in your responses and mocking me. Instead of being constructive, you’re just being immature.

How about you simply voice, your actual opinions about the issues you see with the game in detail, instead of complaining about how it’s not instantly the game you thought it was because you didn’t actually spend five minutes reading the actual steam page or any of the developers own posts and responses?

Or even just watched one of their dev logs on YouTube.

[naciabell]

Originally posted by Wirewing:

Wow, I knew this topic was going to be a hot mess the moment someone lionized 90's games to compare this one to it. When someone evokes the 'games of the 90's' they are always about to make a series of excuses for a crap game. 90's games sucked. Nostalgia is dumb. Standards have gone up. Consumer sentimentality is self affirming brainwashing. You couldn't be less honest.

But oh, to see the shills have a go at the actually honest comments! Hilarious. You know word count does't make you correct, right? Their simple responses, depicting a growing annoyance with how obtuse the shills must make themselves in their TLDR tribute novels is really gold. Just pure gold. Never change. When you become a meme you're no longer respectable but, definitely a treasure to behold.

I encourage you to actually read through all the comments from the previous pages. You will actually find that nobody here as being a shill. In reality we are all correcting a few people who were basically saying that the developers misled people or were trying to scam people by claiming that they were moved content that they said was part of the base game, to sell it as DLC.

Which we have corrected and now they are just grasping at straws to find anything after they embarrassed themselves, because they were wrong about what they were arguing. And the evidence was right there., but they didn’t even do basic research to check the steam front page and read it.

[SickaSalmon]

Seriously these simps are repeating "This isn't a scam" like it's a mantra capable of turning this into a real game. I don't even have to name them. Look at all the honest feedback they provided vs the outright hostility they show towards people with legit grievances against the game, developers, and now the self righteous community. Yall are really pathetic if you think your method of sending repeating messages and quote reply will convince us that there is 30$ worth of something here that doesn't involve fleecing unwitting consumers. Our repeated attempts to offer simple resolutions like fixing the store page to look like more honest EA products. Or the dungeon design is so terrible there is no sign of it getting better. And the patches to do so are moving the game further toward the unfun and outright terrible design choices. Who is the one not reading? You think you're calling us out? Look at your friend who vilified another poster and put words in their mouth. How embarrassing.

[Dhuran]

Originally posted by Wirewing:

Wow, I knew this topic was going to be a hot mess the moment someone lionized 90's games to compare this one to it. When someone evokes the 'games of the 90's' they are always about to make a series of excuses for a crap game. 90's games sucked. Nostalgia is dumb. Standards have gone up. Consumer sentimentality is self affirming brainwashing. You couldn't be less honest.

But oh, to see the shills have a go at the actually honest comments! Hilarious. You know word count does't make you correct, right? Their simple responses, depicting a growing annoyance with how obtuse the shills must make themselves in their TLDR tribute novels is really gold. Just pure gold. Never change. When you become a meme you're no longer respectable but, definitely a treasure to behold.

Eh, 2/10 bait. Too over the top and obvious, but bonus points for using the word 'lionized'.