Design Question - Finding a Lair

[LordYabo]

Imagine we're playing a pen&paper RPG (D&D, Pathfinder) and I as GM tell you of a location where a villager was attacked by goblins. You go to the site.

What would you do, what choices would you make, to find the goblin's lair?

[Syncus]

If I was already at the site, I would first try to find tracks to get a clue where they went to. If found, I could track them down and clobber them into submission and try to get the information out of with torture as an extreme method or stalk them until they go back to their lair. More experienced goblin hunters would know in character how to think like a goblin, where to make a goblin camp after a raid/attack depending goblin habits and perhaps figure out the best places to establish your goblin bed and lair. They don't like the sunlight usually.

Depending on the average goblin intelligence, cowardice and devotion to their lair, keeping one goblin alive to either bring you to their lair or letting them believe that they could have fled from you, thus enabling you to stalk them, are possibilities too.

With magic, you have more options. If you were illegally practicing mind magic in the world of Vaelun, you could take a peek in the goblins memories. Maybe you could talk to plants and animals to know where the goblins came from and came back to. Sending a familiar that could fly would be a safer alternative to do the stalking, or using animals in general to track their scent would be helpful too. Goblin bathers are unheard of after all..

Without any hint to where the sighted goblin(s) went to, you could trap them instead depending on what they usually attack. A caravan without protection, farm animals left alone or the usual poor village that just happened to have a certain archmage in progress around as examples. The hunting dogs may not be helpful enough if the attack was a few days ago, the tracks could fade away due the weather. Tracking a group of fighters down could very well bring you to a dead end.

Then again, goblins don't diligently clean up their camps do they? Thinking like your quarry may be a skill learned through your past, a bandit would know what a bandit would do.. You could be raised by actual wolves too..

This is what I could think of for now, hopefully it helped out even a litte!

[willsama974]

A. Tracking: Search for tracks and clues around said location in order to find the lair.

B. Beastmaster: Bring his best pets to track the Gobos for him.

C. Outdoor man habit: Try to find a higher ground near said location in case the lair is "visible" somehow.

D. Social: Ask in the tavern and around said location if anyone witnessed other attacks/Goblins to decrease the search area.

E. Patrol: Circle around said location searching for clues/Goblins.

F. Magic:
-Nature: Talk to animals/plants in said location for clues and indications.
-Seer: Witness the past in said location using a ritual and expensive ressources in the process.
-Life: Activate "life scan" and search for those pesky greenies.
-Metamorphe: Shift into the best tracker you can then back to E.

G. Merchant: Hire pathfinders and hunters to search for the Greenies.

[Dhuran]

Could also metamorph into a goblin. Might be risky though.

Also, leave out an item goblins might like that is enchanted in such a way that you can magically locate it, and wait for them to steal it.

Honestly, Syncarius and willsama have it pretty well covered!

[LordYabo]

thanks guys! I'm no longer stuck.

[LordYabo]

You capture a goblin after battle and he goes into your inventory as a prisoner.

Is it obvious/intuitive to click him to start an interrogation (if the tooltip says so)?

Or does the interrogate thing pop up right after a battle in which you captured intelligent creatures?

[willsama974]

Originally posted by LordYabo:

You capture a goblin after battle and he goes into your inventory as a prisoner.

Is it obvious/intuitive to click him to start an interrogation (if the tooltip says so)?

Or does the interrogate thing pop up right after a battle in which you captured intelligent creatures?

Both are valid options imho. Second one can't be missed though ^^ First one could allow a "second interrogation" elsewhere/with someone else.
Maybe pop up right after battle and ability to pick:
interrogate now/keep captive/slay/set free...Which allows option two later on.

[drow28]

Yea, both are valid options.

Are there any spoils of war that you can get after the battle like gold or items?
If yes, maybe a dialog that presents them can also offer to interogate the captured enemies.

[Dhuran]

Yeah, I would actually say do both.

Have the pop-up with the option, and the pop up can hint the player that they can do so from the inventory later if they wish. Might be irritating if you capture a bunch of creatures in one battle though.

[LordYabo]

OK I did both.

It only pops up IF you have captured a creature for which you do not know the lair location. It pops up the same thing as if you clicked the prisoner in your inventory.

As for loot and such, ya everyone expects to kill things and get loot.
It's something I wonder about often because I don't want to tie combat to the aquisition of things. Combat is just a way to solve a problem to getting things, and not necessarily the best way.
But if at the end of the day I made an RPG that is no fun to play then i really haven't achieved anything. So i'm trying to do something different, but i'm not a purist.

Also, to take a page out of what was wrong with Diablo 3, less but better loot is what i'm doing. So instead of collecting lots of junk, drops are few and far between but really good. Cuts down on wasting time with inventory, selling, grinding, etc.

In build 11 when you kill a chieftain you get a good drop. I couldn't *not* do that.

[willsama974]

Originally posted by LordYabo:

OK I did both.

It only pops up IF you have captured a creature for which you do not know the lair location. It pops up the same thing as if you clicked the prisoner in your inventory.

As for loot and such, ya everyone expects to kill things and get loot.
It's something I wonder about often because I don't want to tie combat to the aquisition of things. Combat is just a way to solve a problem to getting things, and not necessarily the best way.
But if at the end of the day I made an RPG that is no fun to play then i really haven't achieved anything. So i'm trying to do something different, but i'm not a purist.

Also, to take a page out of what was wrong with Diablo 3, less but better loot is what i'm doing. So instead of collecting lots of junk, drops are few and far between but really good. Cuts down on wasting time with inventory, selling, grinding, etc.

In build 11 when you kill a chieftain you get a good drop. I couldn't *not* do that.

Loot is a weird thing to handle when you have an actual economy going on. You'll have plenty of time to "manage" that past B11 ;)
And i fully agree that the loot obtainable through fighting should also be obtainable in other ways such as impersonate/sneak/contract/bribe...

[Syncus]

Maybe a subcategory of junk that you can autosell once you are at a town could work, if the amount of loot feels "empty". Some people just like to hoard junk too.

Creatures could give a fake location of their lair, for example bandits who heard that a no mercy Archmage is on the loose.. Which might change if you perhaps offer them a way out without harm? If you aren't using torture, and if you have a reputation of holding your word to even bandits as example, they might be convinced that if you would let them go if they tell where their base is. Their bandit buddies at the lair are probally dead sooner or later, capturing takes more skill than killing after all. Could be interesting if you could turn bandits back into normal villagers with some gold and the promise of turning them into a bonfire if they became bandits again.

Mages could very easily make their own name known throughout their the world, compared to commoners.

[orvarth5]

you could summon a magical eye for scouting the region (substain spell) .

an upgrade to this spell : the eye place a teleport beacon to the places of interest .

[drow28]

Originally posted by willsama974:

Originally posted by LordYabo:

OK I did both.

It only pops up IF you have captured a creature for which you do not know the lair location. It pops up the same thing as if you clicked the prisoner in your inventory.

As for loot and such, ya everyone expects to kill things and get loot.
It's something I wonder about often because I don't want to tie combat to the aquisition of things. Combat is just a way to solve a problem to getting things, and not necessarily the best way.
But if at the end of the day I made an RPG that is no fun to play then i really haven't achieved anything. So i'm trying to do something different, but i'm not a purist.

Also, to take a page out of what was wrong with Diablo 3, less but better loot is what i'm doing. So instead of collecting lots of junk, drops are few and far between but really good. Cuts down on wasting time with inventory, selling, grinding, etc.

In build 11 when you kill a chieftain you get a good drop. I couldn't *not* do that.

Loot is a weird thing to handle when you have an actual economy going on. You'll have plenty of time to "manage" that past B11 ;)
And i fully agree that the loot obtainable through fighting should also be obtainable in other ways such as impersonate/sneak/contract/bribe...

This is the key thing - economy. You can easily itroduce junk/autosell loot if there as a need for easier gold income. Guess that will be known only after the ecomony is tested in build 11.

Anyway, the approach you are taking - rare valuable loot - is more suitable for AR style in my opinion also.

[athan_dashiva]

Definitely don't ignore loot. Many players love grinding loot whether it's useless or not and not having it can help destroy a game. See Vikings:Wolves of Midgard for one..

[LordYabo]

Originally posted by athan_dashiva:

Definitely don't ignore loot. Many players love grinding loot whether it's useless or not and not having it can help destroy a game. See Vikings:Wolves of Midgard for one..

OK, good warning.

People were upset (ie: bringing it up repeatedly) that they got nothing when they turned in a quest other than the person giving it liking the player more. Realistically, that is what happens when someone asks a favor of you. I mean, you got to keep all the stuff you accumulated along the way, but no, people wanted a "ding" when they turned in.