Question about level 5C

[Joaco]

I already completed it, but I still don't understand how I passed the first screen. It happened a couple times: I regained my dash near the end of the screen and I can't understand how. Is it a bug or a mechanic? This was after I picked the second and last crystal.

[Clantis]

after some testing:
it appears that when an obstacle, or at least a crystal spinner, is moved into the player, the game does not kill the player on the first frame player touches the spike but instead the second frame.
you're just hitting the corner so precisely, that you spent exactly one frame inside of the spike which lets you just barely touch the ground and regain your dash.

its made easier by the game running in 60fps, the player having one hitbox for stuff like spikes and another for ground which extends further down, and of course the block moving up, which is probably why it happens so often.


waiting for the tasers to disprove me (or some mf able to use a wiki better than me)

[Joaco]

I see. That fits with some of the times I regained my dash for no reason. There were also times when I regained my dash while being really near a crystal, which gave me 2 dashes, and times when I just got my dash back in the middle of falling to my death.

[Clantis]

update on this because i just put some stuff together after talking to a taser:

its not that the game doesn't kill you on the first frame of touching a crystal spinner, apparently with moving blocks objects that are touching them like the player or spikes have their hitboxes seperated into visual hitboxes and actual collide hitboxes, the visual hitbox moves in a more sensible way while the actual collide hitbox is actually just behind the movement of the block, meaning the spinners kind of sink into the block as it moves up.
the players hitbox also does this so its kind of confusing to look at the hitboxes, but my explanation was wrong. the spinner is effectively lower down into the block. since on the side of a spinner hitbox theres a 3 pixel high rectangle, it will sink 1/2 pixels lower down into the block allowing you to touch it with your standing hitbox (which extends 2 pixels further down than the hitbox that deals with touching spikes), letting you stand on the corner without touching the spinner, but you touch the ground regaining your dash.

i had no idea that there were hitboxes that dealt with visuals and other ones that dealt with the actual collision between things. the debug menu doesn't let you see this, you have to use the celesteTAS mod and enable "show actual collide hitboxes" to see this.
but apparently they seperate a lot with moving block stuff, i dont know why.

edit: taser just told me that the spinner hitbox seperates because the visual one is where it is but the new actual collide one is where the game is checking if you're in the spike.
basically: the game has subframe stuff happening where the spinner gets moved after the game checks if you're in the spike, so while the spike is in you it got moved AFTER the game checked if you were in it in that frame, so it basically behaves as if the spinner is just in a lower position.
yes this game has subframe mechanics. i've been learning about it for a while its fascinating.

[probably_not_cake_batter]

Originally posted by Clantis:

update on this because i just put some stuff together after talking to a taser:

its not that the game doesn't kill you on the first frame of touching a crystal spinner, apparently with moving blocks objects that are touching them like the player or spikes have their hitboxes seperated into visual hitboxes and actual collide hitboxes, the visual hitbox moves in a more sensible way while the actual collide hitbox is actually just behind the movement of the block, meaning the spinners kind of sink into the block as it moves up.
the players hitbox also does this so its kind of confusing to look at the hitboxes, but my explanation was wrong. the spinner is effectively lower down into the block. since on the side of a spinner hitbox theres a 3 pixel high rectangle, it will sink 1/2 pixels lower down into the block allowing you to touch it with your standing hitbox (which extends 2 pixels further down than the hitbox that deals with touching spikes), letting you stand on the corner without touching the spinner, but you touch the ground regaining your dash.

i had no idea that there were hitboxes that dealt with visuals and other ones that dealt with the actual collision between things. the debug menu doesn't let you see this, you have to use the celesteTAS mod and enable "show actual collide hitboxes" to see this.
but apparently they seperate a lot with moving block stuff, i dont know why.

edit: taser just told me that the spinner hitbox seperates because the visual one is where it is but the new actual collide one is where the game is checking if you're in the spike.
basically: the game has subframe stuff happening where the spinner gets moved after the game checks if you're in the spike, so while the spike is in you it got moved AFTER the game checked if you were in it in that frame, so it basically behaves as if the spinner is just in a lower position.
yes this game has subframe mechanics. i've been learning about it for a while its fascinating.

hi ur really cool