Is it just me, or does the story make no sense (Spoilers)?

[BibleBot123]

For example, why would badeline want to kill madeline if she's a part of herself, and if she isn't part of her and just a mirror, why would she be in the epilogue?

[raw maw]

She exists because the mountain made her.
As Granny said; the mountain shows the worst in us. or something
And so it created Badeline.

And she kills because it's a game. lol idk

[Lain Iwakura]

dude you didn't get any ♥♥♥♥ about how anxiety can destroy a person, from this point of view surely makes sense, the creators were thinking in many things that you still don't undestand

[raw maw]

Originally posted by Lain Iwakura:

dude you didn't get any ♥♥♥♥ about how anxiety can destroy a person, from this point of view surely makes sense, the creators were thinking in many things that you still don't undestand

No need to get aggressive.
While yes it's true; though not everybody has experienced 'anxiety', nor any other mental-illness for that matter, and so don't personally understand the suffer nor experience of it.
And so i don't see why you would resort to act like that — seems unjustified.

[SamuelRhath]

Badeline is Madeline's inhibitions. Madeline wants to climb Celeste Mountain, as stated multiple times, but Celeste brought out the worst in her. It bought out Badeline, who is the physical representation of her anxiety and depression. By looking later into the story, you figure out that Badeline is just scared, and doesn't want to climb the mountain. By connecting the dots, you can make a reasonable assumption: A part of Madeline doesn't want to climb the mountain. A part of her is scared about the possible consequences of falling, or dying, or just failing to climb the mountain. Because Celeste brought this part of her out, along with the rest of her negative emotions, Badeline tries to stop her from climbing the mountain. Whether it be from a chase sequence, or trying to stop a cable car, Badeline is wanting Madeline to stop. This can play into how she hasn't listened to herself, and has been trying to ignore her emotions in an attempt to make progress in life, but the main point has been made, and I hope this gets across. I don't think she is actually killing herself, but because this is a game, I think it would be hard to try and represent her just being put back down the mountain.

[raw maw]

^ I think that's the clearest and best explanation plausible.

[BibleBot123]

Originally posted by SamuelRhath:

Badeline is Madeline's inhibitions. Madeline wants to climb Celeste Mountain, as stated multiple times, but Celeste brought out the worst in her. It bought out Badeline, who is the physical representation of her anxiety and depression. By looking later into the story, you figure out that Badeline is just scared, and doesn't want to climb the mountain. By connecting the dots, you can make a reasonable assumption: A part of Madeline doesn't want to climb the mountain. A part of her is scared about the possible consequences of falling, or dying, or just failing to climb the mountain. Because Celeste brought this part of her out, along with the rest of her negative emotions, Badeline tries to stop her from climbing the mountain. Whether it be from a chase sequence, or trying to stop a cable car, Badeline is wanting Madeline to stop. This can play into how she hasn't listened to herself, and has been trying to ignore her emotions in an attempt to make progress in life, but the main point has been made, and I hope this gets across. I don't think she is actually killing herself, but because this is a game, I think it would be hard to try and represent her just being put back down the mountain.

I thank you for your answer. But couldn't they have added some dialogue to communicate Badelines goal a little bit better with the boss battle?

It doesn't seem to make sense that she would want to kill herself to stop climbing the mountain. And I feel that if they made Badeline communicate her goal more, and be more sympathetic, it would feel a lot more understandable and reasonable then just outright kill her. Maybe they could have added some dialogue to the fight?

[SamuelRhath]

Originally posted by Buddy:

Originally posted by SamuelRhath:

Badeline is Madeline's inhibitions. Madeline wants to climb Celeste Mountain, as stated multiple times, but Celeste brought out the worst in her. It bought out Badeline, who is the physical representation of her anxiety and depression. By looking later into the story, you figure out that Badeline is just scared, and doesn't want to climb the mountain. By connecting the dots, you can make a reasonable assumption: A part of Madeline doesn't want to climb the mountain. A part of her is scared about the possible consequences of falling, or dying, or just failing to climb the mountain. Because Celeste brought this part of her out, along with the rest of her negative emotions, Badeline tries to stop her from climbing the mountain. Whether it be from a chase sequence, or trying to stop a cable car, Badeline is wanting Madeline to stop. This can play into how she hasn't listened to herself, and has been trying to ignore her emotions in an attempt to make progress in life, but the main point has been made, and I hope this gets across. I don't think she is actually killing herself, but because this is a game, I think it would be hard to try and represent her just being put back down the mountain.

I thank you for your answer. But couldn't they have added some dialogue to communicate Badelines goal a little bit better with the boss battle?

It doesn't seem to make sense that she would want to kill herself to stop climbing the mountain. And I feel that if they made Badeline communicate her goal more, and be more sympathetic, it would feel a lot more understandable and reasonable then just outright kill her. Maybe they could have added some dialogue to the fight?

The issue with that idea, is that by communicating her goals and by being more sympathetic, it would go against the entire idea of what she is. Badeline is the culmination of Madeline's negative emotions, amplified and materialized by Celeste. If it was as simple as Badeline just asking Madeline to stop in a very kind way, the story could have been entirely different, because a nicer Badeline would imply that Madeline has a calmer depression.

Even so, Badeline did try and tell her to stop, just never in the right format (Until after Reflection). In Old Site, Badeline attempts to convince her to not climb the mountain using terms and language that would make Madeline want to spite her. To want to try and prove Badeline wrong. Leaving wasn't a realistic option in Madeline's head. If you want to read the conversation, you can just go to the chapter and go to the start of the chase section, it starts up the conversation immediately. The conversation goes like this, Badeline (B): "You are many things, Darling, but you are not a mountain climber." Madeline: "Who says I can't be?" B: "I know it's not your strong suit, but be reasonable for once. You have no idea what you're getting into. You can't handle this....Let's go home, together." These are some of the very common issues that someone with depression and anxiety can have. "I can't handle this, I don't know what I'm getting into," and struggling to be reasonable in a stressful situation. And not just in this situation. When in the Reflection fight, Badeline talks about how Madeline isn't a mountain climber and that she is trying to help her. In Badeline's mind, she has been trying to help Madeline. Being nice wouldn't fall into her character personality until after Reflection, because Madeline has never tried to fully listen to her, so being as aggressive as possible is her only choice.

I'm saying that Badeline did try to get her off the mountain, it was just in a very aggresive and toxic way. Also, once again, death might just be a metaphor. I mean, Madeline respawns after every death, and we even see a counter for how many times she died. Maybe in this world, this mountain has the ability to revive people, so that they can retry over and over. With this theory, we can also connect the fact that Badeline has Laser, projectiles, and is able to physically manifest objects, to the Mountain. It gave Badeline these abilities knowing exactly how it would turn out. But we're in the midst of theory, so if I was to try and reasonably explain why Badeline tries to kill Madeline, it is probably just a shortcut by the developers, or just a metaphor for them leaving the mountain. Death in video games are always hard to explain when there isn't a clear reason as to why they are revived.

[BibleBot123]

Originally posted by SamuelRhath:

Originally posted by Buddy:

I thank you for your answer. But couldn't they have added some dialogue to communicate Badelines goal a little bit better with the boss battle?

It doesn't seem to make sense that she would want to kill herself to stop climbing the mountain. And I feel that if they made Badeline communicate her goal more, and be more sympathetic, it would feel a lot more understandable and reasonable then just outright kill her. Maybe they could have added some dialogue to the fight?

The issue with that idea, is that by communicating her goals and by being more sympathetic, it would go against the entire idea of what she is. Badeline is the culmination of Madeline's negative emotions, amplified and materialized by Celeste. If it was as simple as Badeline just asking Madeline to stop in a very kind way, the story could have been entirely different, because a nicer Badeline would imply that Madeline has a calmer depression.

Even so, Badeline did try and tell her to stop, just never in the right format (Until after Reflection). In Old Site, Badeline attempts to convince her to not climb the mountain using terms and language that would make Madeline want to spite her. To want to try and prove Badeline wrong. Leaving wasn't a realistic option in Madeline's head. If you want to read the conversation, you can just go to the chapter and go to the start of the chase section, it starts up the conversation immediately. The conversation goes like this, Badeline (B): "You are many things, Darling, but you are not a mountain climber." Madeline: "Who says I can't be?" B: "I know it's not your strong suit, but be reasonable for once. You have no idea what you're getting into. You can't handle this....Let's go home, together." These are some of the very common issues that someone with depression and anxiety can have. "I can't handle this, I don't know what I'm getting into," and struggling to be reasonable in a stressful situation. And not just in this situation. When in the Reflection fight, Badeline talks about how Madeline isn't a mountain climber and that she is trying to help her. In Badeline's mind, she has been trying to help Madeline. Being nice wouldn't fall into her character personality until after Reflection, because Madeline has never tried to fully listen to her, so being as aggressive as possible is her only choice.

I'm saying that Badeline did try to get her off the mountain, it was just in a very aggresive and toxic way. Also, once again, death might just be a metaphor. I mean, Madeline respawns after every death, and we even see a counter for how many times she died. Maybe in this world, this mountain has the ability to revive people, so that they can retry over and over. With this theory, we can also connect the fact that Badeline has Laser, projectiles, and is able to physically manifest objects, to the Mountain. It gave Badeline these abilities knowing exactly how it would turn out. But we're in the midst of theory, so if I was to try and reasonably explain why Badeline tries to kill Madeline, it is probably just a shortcut by the developers, or just a metaphor for them leaving the mountain. Death in video games are always hard to explain when there isn't a clear reason as to why they are revived.

Thanks for the answer. I guess I shouldn't have thought about it too hard, but thanks anyways. It was very informing.

[SamuelRhath]

Originally posted by Buddy:

Thanks for the answer. I guess I shouldn't have thought about it too hard, but thanks anyways. It was very informing. :celeste_strawberry:

Don't worry about it. Celeste is a complex game, and I think many people have questioned the death of a video game character before! Hope you have a good day!

[BibleBot123]

Originally posted by SamuelRhath:

Originally posted by Buddy:

Thanks for the answer. I guess I shouldn't have thought about it too hard, but thanks anyways. It was very informing.

Don't worry about it. Celeste is a complex game, and I think many people have questioned the death of a video game character before! Hope you have a good day!

Thanks! Same to you!

[andrew]

this was so wholesome

[raw maw]

True

[ekisacik]

Originally posted by SamuelRhath:

Badeline is the culmination of Madeline's negative emotions, amplified and materialized by Celeste.

I think this was the key connection to understanding why Badeline tries to kill Madeline that I was missing. Thank you!

[Maya-Neko]

As someone who has stronger depressions sometimes i can say: The urge to kill yourself can be quite present in a stronger phase of depression and can definitely be caused by either failing too often/too strong in the past or by a strong fear of failing in the future.

It doesn't make sense at all to think like that from an objective point of view (like madeline telling herself, that she's capable of climbing the mountain), but sadly feelings are way stronger than logic, if they overwhelm you (like badeline trying to prevent madeline from failing to climb the mountain, even if that means, that she had to kill madeline in the process).

[raw maw]

Exactly, yeah.