Chapter 9 final screen is bad

[drp_]

It's not hard, it's not impossible, it's just badly designed. Cost of small mistake is too big time wise. 90 seconds of the most boring аss level in the entire game. It's dramatic and all, but it just too much of a time waster without any way to skip boring sections with tech or something. And then, if you want to get the moon berry and do make mistake on the actuall good part (climbing up after turning off electricity) YOU HAVE TO DO THE WORST PART OF THE WHOLE 25 LEVEL GAME AGAIN.

[Luraman]

I completely agree that the "parachute maze", while cool in concept, was NOT exciting for a last stage. I seriously only died to that part once, because I was rushing through it to save time, really just a big time waster. Sadly, the worst part of Chapter 9 for me.

As a suggestion, maybe add a difficult shortcut across the middle part that skips the maze, but you had to do like a wall-dash into a wave dash into dashing through a small gap or something really intense.

[smeredith]

This is my only major complaint about chapter 9, the last screen doesn't respect your time like the rest of the game does. There is even a natural spot for a checkpoint right after the switch.

[Citronvand]

I disagree it is badly designed, the final screen challenges you for consistency. The actions required are honestly fairly easy to pull off, it's just very long so you have to be consistent. After I beat it the first time I could redo it in just a few tries, which I did because I wanted the moonberry as well.

[Wyatt]

Yeah this screen is terrible. The feeling of doing parachute maze the first time is amazing but that should've been the end, everything after it totally ruins the pacing. I stopped having fun the instant I passed the parachute maze (BEFORE dying) and it's been a slog since

[Saffron]

You should've only had to do the parachute maze once, IMO, but the actual maze itself and the rest of the level was fine by me.

In other words, I don't think that most of the level itself was poorly designed, but rather that certain parts of it got extremely repetitive over time.

[David J Prokopetz]

I've gotta concur about the parachute maze. Yes, it's a fun puzzle, but it's a. the most time-consuming single puzzle in the entire game, even without counting the stuff that comes before it, and b. not particularly challenging by itself, so having to repeat it every time you screw up one of the more challenging bits immediately after it gets tedious very quickly. Grinding out that final segment feels like playing a tricky boss fight with an unskippable minute-long cutscene before it.

[Zylth]

Celeste throughout the entire game is small challenges that test skill. It's the design of the game throughout the entire experience except the optional golden strawberries. As the final hurrah of the game for some stupid reason they through this entire philosophy out of the window with an odyssey length level? It honestly feels insulting to the spirit of the game that this is how you want me to remember it

[wervyn]

Gotta disagree with the general sentiment here. The way I see it, if everything up to the heart is basically an A-side, and getting to the end of the beat-block section is like the B-side that expands on your knowledge of movement tech, then the last bit that follows at the end is one long C-side, culminating in an epically long final screen. It's about twice as long as 7C or 8C's final screen, but not nearly as mechanically taxing as either.

To be fair trying to go through it the first time was grueling, full of "you have got to be kidding!" and "what is this fresh BS that I couldn't see in advance?!" But the real magic of Celeste always happens the second and third times you play through a level, and the target audience for Farewell was clearly not the people who were satisfied to beat the game once and then put it down forever. It's squarely aimed at players whose response to finishing a super tough level was "I bet I can do that better next time."

As such, if your last impression of the game is "that last screen was terrible and I'm glad it's over", then it's possible the chapter wasn't really made for you. For me, going through it has actually inspired me to give golden berries a more serious look, since if I can do THAT (and later moonberry) in one take... I already managed to clear all of the C-sides following it, and suddenly the A-sides and lower B-sides don't seem quite so impossible. The last three B-sides and especially golden Farewell still seem way out of reach, but who knows where I'll end up. So at this point my impression of the game is "I can't believe Celeste got me to pass another skill threshold I thought I'd never be interested in pursuing."

[spendabelFreund]

Originally posted by Zylth:

Celeste throughout the entire game is small challenges that test skill. It's the design of the game throughout the entire experience except the optional golden strawberries. As the final hurrah of the game for some stupid reason they through this entire philosophy out of the window with an odyssey length level? It honestly feels insulting to the spirit of the game that this is how you want me to remember it

I disagree. From the second chapter on with the last screen of the chase sequence, long screens have been the climax of celeste's levels throughout almost the entire game. I definitely agree that the last screen of Farewell is not as exciting as the last screen of 7C (one of my favourite screens) or some other long screens, but it being an endurance challenge totally fits the game.

Maybe the updraft section shouldn't have had a jellyfish but rather more wavedashes and crystals (I don't think the chapter had a wavedash section that was also an ascension?) and that would have been more exciting, with the jellyfish in an updraft as the very final setpiece to exit the screen with instead of with badeline? The first section could have been a bit faster by using the jellyfish a bit less or in combination with the wavedash? But ending the game at a slower pace is okay too, in my opinion.

[EvilChicken]

Once you can consistently reach the updraft part, the rest of the level is easy compared to the rest of the DLC. A-Side easy for the most part.

[Suntrooper]

Some say it is a time waster without checkpoints, some say it is about consistency.
I think both opinions are right and not necessarily a contradiction.

I think as well that it definitely is a time waster, although I also think that in the end, you should be able to do the whole part without checkpoints.

The problem is IMO that if you are like me, you need some tries to figure out how a part works and to get used to it to be able to constantly do it right. There lies the problem: I need to "learn" the latter farewell parts, but for each try I have to go through that long part at the beginning.
My solution would be the following: Implement some mechanic or checkpoints so that you can practice each part of the level at will, BUT insert some sort of barrier, so that you can not proceed to the next level (or the end) if you use that feature. You can't proceed unless you beat the whole room in one go.

That way everyone could train the latter obstacles and parts and become able to constantly beat them. To really proceed, start at the beginning of the room and beat all parts together.


Actually, this is why golden berries are thing. Imagine this whole game ONLY had the golden berry mode, there not being checkpoints at all. Not many people would invest time to learn and beat the whole stages with one life.
But the way the game really is, you have a lot of checkpoints and can learn each room by itself.
If you feel confident enough and know all parts, you can start the golden berry challenge.

The farewell room is exactly like those golden berry challenges: A lot of parts without checkpoints. But you dont get the possibility to do it non-golden-berry-like.

[Spooky]

It really doesn't respect your time and while I understand its intention thematically, the cost at which this has come is a fairly mediocre level. The pretense of long screens is nothing new to Celeste (C Sides), but I scarcely felt that they had wasted my time prior to Chapter 9. Even 7-C was both shorter and ultimately more difficult in its last screen.

The last screen of Chapter 9 is marred by the fact of its length, the absence of a checkpoint after the first section (where I died the most on the given screen), and that you're forced to go in blind into the Jellyfish maze. The last point is especially frustrating and leads to me freaking the ♥♥♥♥ out and making easy mistakes. But that's just my crippling anxiety talking.

I honestly would prefer a more difficult jellyfish maze but in the addition of a checkpoint prior to it. I feel like this would address the problem without turning down the difficulty too considerably.

[Edgar Tato Po]

Originally posted by Suntrooper:

The farewell room is exactly like those golden berry challenges: A lot of parts without checkpoints. But you dont get the possibility to do it non-golden-berry-like.

Assist mode.

[Suntrooper]

Well, you are right, I could go there and turn invincibility on... but I think there could be a smoother solution for that ^^ I don't want to complain too hard, though, if you don't want to get the moon berry as well, its absolutely doable withouth investing hours.

[Ofir is hungry]

this final screen is such a middle finger, I'm going to leave the game unfinished because of how annoying it is.
I'm not super good at it, but most of the hard levels I can spend an hour or two and get it done.
The thing is I'm not consistent. and most of the game's design respects that, and gives me checkpoints. Not that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ screen.
I'm going through the damn thing over and over, most of the time I get the first parachute right, then theres a maze, so it took me some tries but now I can do it fairly consistent. Then I turn the switch on and theres another painful part.
If I manage the first parachute part 80% of times, then the maze like 75% of times, then the next part 60%, this means that I'm going to redo a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of times.
Add a checkpoint. your players don't have to be perfect to have the luxury to enjoy your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game.
If it was a level on a bad game I wouldn't bat an eye, but a level that is frustraitingly unfun on a really good and overall cathartic game is so depressing.
I'm feel really bad about leaving it.
♥♥♥♥ granny, enjoy heaven by yourself.