144hz?

[Tripitaka (HUN)]

So I am capped at 60hz and I can't go for 144 and sry but my eyes bleed. Is there a way to force the game to run at this fps?

[DonutSteel]

Devs said they didn't want people having different experiences depending on the frame rate so it's fixed to 60

[Tripitaka (HUN)]

lol what that's not how gaming works..... Good to know then.

[Meneluma]

Generally 60 is the standard for a lot of hard platformers.
What you may not know is that a higher refresh rate would actually makes platforming games much harder when it comes to few pixel inputs or pixel perfect jumps, meanwhile lowering it to 30 fps would make it easier giving you double the time to react.

A higher refesh rate may be helping you in Geometry Dash given the lack of animation based movement, but when it comes to pixel perfect jumps or advanced movement tech that requires to do another action during a character animation(Celeste's wave dashing and super jumping) you get a much smaller window to pull it off.

[Tripitaka (HUN)]

I didn't know that but I would still put it to 144hz even if it's harder because of the gameplay experience. Once one is seeing the difference 60 will feel slow, underwhelming, and in the first few weeks I even saw lags and my eyes literally itched.
I didn't buy 144hz to be much better in GD ( which I eventually did because it ofc helped lot ) but to make my eperience much smoother because I am that kind of perosn who can play with utter crap graphics if it's smooth. I am also kinda good in timings, mostly the complex platformer stuff throws me off, so i wouldn't be complaining that much I think. That is why I said that's not how gaming works...... Every single hardware and every single setting will be giving a different experience, and one may describe some as easier or harder, but that is always how it is been and as long as hardwares and games are produced by compaines, so like forever, it will be, but that is not the point. They have literally given players a built-in cheat mode if someone is not satisified with the experience, then it is simply just stupid to not give players 144hz and like make a warning signal that tech stuff happens or just didn't find a solution to this problem and saying " we capped fps because we want players to have an equal experience", because there is no way that there isn't and if there is it is so expensive or hard to pull off. What I am saying is that in 2019 I would really expect everyone or almost everyone to not cap fps and solve movement and animaton otherwise. I am no programmer, but that's what they are paid for, aren't they? I mean I accepted it for SMB because it is 2010 and the game for that era is impressive but now for me at least it is a demand of some sort. I am not mad or anything, just disappointed.

[Mikasa Ackerman]

i need 144hz for fast shooters , but for this its fine with 60

[Tripitaka (HUN)]

Now that is one mentality I never liked. "for this or this we need different refresh rates " like any genre has any advantage over the another especially the e-sports games. It does make a difference no matter what you are playing, even if not skill-wise which is extremely rare, but visual and experience. It may be fine for you, but hell not for me, and the only reason I am accepting if there is no above 60 in a game if the game is old or it needs an atomic power plant to be ran on ( but we know the latter ones have that anyway so whatever ).

In fact I would say that on the technical side if you are really that economical about it, then it would be a tie between all real time stuff since most of them are timing genres.

You may say that I am obsessed with this, but tell me, do you ever want to eat any fast food if you could have given the option to have a chef cooking for you? Or would you watch the show on your old 1980's tv, once you have witnessed the QLED 8K? Of course not! That is the difference I feel with 144hz and no exaggeration whatsoever. I switched because it offered a smooth experience. It is 2019 so I want support from developers ( and I and many others like me are given it more as time goes on. ). It is this simple.

[Wingyl]

This game has frame-perfect jumps and runs at 60 updates a second, roughly. (It's not quite 60 fps, Steam rounds.)

That's both graphical and physics updates. They're interlinked. Increasing the framerate increases the speed of the entire game. When we say "it'd play differently depending on the framerate" we don't mean "you have more or less visual time to react" we mean "if Maddy moves 200 units in a second on 60 fps she will move 400 units in a second with the same inputs on 120 FPS".

[Meneluma]

Originally posted by Wingyl:

That's both graphical and physics updates.

The physics part gets especially lost on people, you'd see the amounts of 30 fps complaint threads some console ports (especially of japanese games from the 90s and 00s) get.
Some people refuse to listen to reason even when told the whole simulation revolves around 30 and breaks when tampered with. In some cases the effect can even be experienced first hand with some minimal file editing. You get everything from time limits counting down impossibly fast making levels impossible, to the game running in double time for absolutely everything, to just broken character animations and behavior.
Yet despite all that some austerly people just happen to insist that a talented modder will prove us all wrong, yeah one person with some free time will do what a full time dev team knew was a fool's errand.

I'm not saying OP didn't get the point, they kind of did and proposed to compensate with assist mode.
However I'd say that expectations of "everyone should switch to a new physics simulation because it is the year 20xx" are a bit of unrealistic.
Larger studios with more funding and manpower do think of ways to improve on that.
I think Ori and the Blind Forest did have uncapped fps despite the game largely revolving around animations rendered in engine both for the characters and some cutscenes, the solution was to have everything render separately from the animations which remained locked. Pretty inventive for an early 2015 release, well they had Microsoft's boatloads of cash to do it of course.

[Tripitaka (HUN)]

We've seen unrealistic things happen before, and finding new and innovative solutions to problems is not something I'd call unrealistic.

Don't tell me I do not understand that solving this problem is extremely difficult to do, but with the "meh I'm not doin' that its too hard" approach we will never ever get beyond the current tech. Urging devs to find ways to give us bigger resolutions at smaller requirements and letting us have more fps without modifying the speed of the entire game IS a viable demand generally, in any year, no matter if it's "20xx" or "30xx" or "67676xx". If this means tweaking the physics simulation then let it be. I am not saying that this should be like "okay so from now on only this will be used", but simply just keeping up with the hardware and slowly letting everyone switch. I am glad that almost all recent games do have 144hz now, I am just disappointed Celeste's devs didn't even try to catch up.

The part where I may sound stupid:

Why has The End is Nigh and Ori and many other games with "much moving objects" have solved it, yet this didn't? Adapting coding techniques is not licensed as far as I know. And don't tell me that from the money they have easily funded chapter 9 with they couldn't have done also the support? If you WANT it to be solved, it WILL be solved. All of this rowing of technical problems we have already seen satisfying solutions for sounds no more than protecting the devs against the responsibility of choosing the easy way and not even correcting it for popular demand. Yet if it was a bug or some ugly texture or any miscoded options setting, there would be.

[Wingyl]

I don't know about The End Is Nigh but you're definitely wrong about Ori.

The Ori developers, not having as tight a game as Celeste (no developer-intended frame perfect tricks, for example), just decided that letting the game speed increase if the framerate was not a multiple of 60 was perfectly fine. That's it, that was their 'solution'.

This is why speedrun.com does not accept runs that were not played at 60fps. Even a ~10% increase in game speed gives players playing at 144fps a massive unfair advantage.

[Tripitaka (HUN)]

Now you just got into the massive topic of speedrunning. I wasn't talking about speedrunning, and if a respected website does not accept those then oh well. Excuse me if we were not talking about a huge community keeping up with the age and most not even demanding, just requesting support from devs, because I did. I get that it was just an example, but it does not fit into the analogy. If you know what you are talking about I am surely wrong about games but it DOES NOT invalidate my entire point which was: if the devs want to support higher refresh rates, they will.

Having a better pc is a massive unfair disadvantage because you can have better graphics increasing the experience value of games. Having a good headset is a massive unfair disadvantage because you will hear your opponent before he hears you. Having a good mouse is a massive unfair disadvantage because input lag is smaller. Having a good keyboard is a massive unfait disadvantage because it is a premium feel, offers you bigger tiping speed potential, anthighosting and so much more. Having a car, clothes, a house, having anything in this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ civilized world that is worth money is a massive unfair disadvantage for somebody, and it does not matter not even a bit if this is a minority or the majority. I would understand your point if 60hz people would retaliate for most games being unfair but I don't see any. It even supports my point that any "gamer who cares" either has a high refresh rate low resolution monitor or reverse so money for most already isn't a big problem and it will be less and less because high refresh rate monitors get only cheaper and cheaper as time goes on.

And I don't know what refresh rate are you on, but people can only understand the big "why" in this thread if they use one good of a kind. I was like those people and everyone I know and have once met was that kind of person until they experienced 144hz and suddenly we all agree. Simple as that.

[Meneluma]

Originally posted by Tripitaka (HUN):

having anything in this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ civilized world that is worth money is a massive unfair disadvantage for somebody

Circles where fairness and a level playing matter generally have their own rules and restrictions.
Sports and Esports have long lists of banned performance enhancing drugs.
Sporting equipment is also regulated where certain things are not allowed for the sole reason of being too good. Same goes for Esports and speedrunning, turbo controllers and gaming mice that can bind a premade sequence of inputs to a single one of the additional buttons will generally get you booted. For the same reason if the game literally runs 10% faster because of your hardware, your speedrun times either get a separate leaderboard or are not accepted.

For that reason this game which is of a genre popular for speedruns, has clearly emphasized certain things being how they are for the sake of speedrunning has decided to lock the fps to the genre standard 60.

And I don't know what refresh rate are you on, but people can only understand the big "why" in this thread if they use one good of a kind.

The short answer of "Why?" is because these games (of skill played at somewhat competitive levels) really do have differing results based on framerate and for that sole reason the developer chose to lock it to keep the playing field even.

It's not limited to platformers either.
Touhou Project (Bullet hell games) has a built in recording of replays of your runs, for the sake of proof of not using any mods and hacks which clearly show when replayed on a machine with a clean install, the replay has to be provided if anyone challenges your claim of legitimacy.
You know what else it tracks? The FPS the game ran on during the recording of the replay which then shows how much deviation from the norm was present.
I believe the accepted number is 60fps±2%. (It counts in decimal points even)

Sure FPS games and some others encourage low resolutions/low graphics for the sake of high framerates, but that is not the case everywhere and you can see that quite the opposite is true in other cases. Generally throwing a fit of why it isn't like in those other games is quite akin to a cultural conflict.

[Mikasa Ackerman]

Originally posted by Captain Yorshka:

Originally posted by Tripitaka (HUN):

having anything in this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ civilized world that is worth money is a massive unfair disadvantage for somebody

Circles where fairness and a level playing matter generally have their own rules and restrictions.
Sports and Esports have long lists of banned performance enhancing drugs.
Sporting equipment is also regulated where certain things are not allowed for the sole reason of being too good. Same goes for Esports and speedrunning, turbo controllers and gaming mice that can bind a premade sequence of inputs to a single one of the additional buttons will generally get you booted. For the same reason if the game literally runs 10% faster because of your hardware, your speedrun times either get a separate leaderboard or are not accepted.

For that reason this game which is of a genre popular for speedruns, has clearly emphasized certain things being how they are for the sake of speedrunning has decided to lock the fps to the genre standard 60.

And I don't know what refresh rate are you on, but people can only understand the big "why" in this thread if they use one good of a kind.

The short answer of "Why?" is because these games (of skill played at somewhat competitive levels) really do have differing results based on framerate and for that sole reason the developer chose to lock it to keep the playing field even.

It's not limited to platformers either.
Touhou Project (Bullet hell games) has a built in recording of replays of your runs, for the sake of proof of not using any mods and hacks which clearly show when replayed on a machine with a clean install, the replay has to be provided if anyone challenges your claim of legitimacy.
You know what else it tracks? The FPS the game ran on during the recording of the replay which then shows how much deviation from the norm was present.
I believe the accepted number is 60fps±2%. (It counts in decimal points even)

Sure FPS games and some others encourage low resolutions/low graphics for the sake of high framerates, but that is not the case everywhere and you can see that quite the opposite is true in other cases. Generally throwing a fit of why it isn't like in those other games is quite akin to a cultural conflict.

now im kinda curious , would a run not be legitimate if you get framedrops ?

[Meneluma]

Originally posted by Mikasa Ackerman:

now im kinda curious , would a run not be legitimate if you get framedrops ?

I'd say no, I don't think it counts single cases of framedrops as that big of a deal compared to overall stability. That's why the general advice is not to try to capture live recordings if you don't trust it not to tank your fps big time. Generally you don't have to worry whether a replay qualifies or not, because ones with more than 2% deviation have the number turn red.
The replays are kind of like a self writing script for a TAS which can then be replicated on another machine in engine, if the game was modded during the recording, it will start not making sense being replayed on a clean install, though the fps is obviously tracked during gameplay and not during a replay.

It's just a clever way to avoid rampant cheating, I hear that Celeste has a symbol code provided by the modloader telling what mods are being run to root out anyone trying to submit altered speedruns, it's pretty cool, even if I don't like to speedrun myself.

[AirborneMuffins]

I'm as much of an FPS ♥♥♥♥♥ as the next guy, but this is just ignorant.