How Hard Is Chapter 9?

[TheNinthAlly]

Just add in your experinces of Chapter 9 now because I’ve already completed the chapter.

[TheNinthAlly]

Originally posted by TheNinthAlly:

Originally posted by kalirion:

I managed to beat 2 or 3 bosses, but then got stuck here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1831922289

So far half-way (maybe) through Chapter 8, it's been approaching that difficulty. I'm actually considering switching to keyboard controls since I have real problem quickly switching directions on a 360 pad's analog stick (and the d-pad is just plain out of the question.)

Oh I got confused by your question earlier but I guess I’ll move on.

You are quite early into the game, the bosses are very easy and the platforming is at its start at the point of Sinister Grotto, which I’ll admit is a difficulty spike. The hardest bosses are at the Acropolis of Anguish and the hardest platforming is (supposedly because it wasn’t for me but is for everyone else) Path of Decay

Also yeah generally with the platforming Chapter 9 is around the Underworld or The Chambers/Library difficulty

[Blurred Aspect]

5 hours 57 mins and 1787 deaths done in one sitting. Just finished now so I'll give my thoughts.

Major spoilers ahead so I'll just cover everything except final opinion.


You know, I really wanted to like this. The dynamic shifts in platforming, the callbacks to all the old skills while still introducing new mechanics and interesting ways of using the skills already learned. It was set up to be a grand finale of epic proportions. And you know what, most of the level is sheer un-condensed awesome.

However there are two things that really dragged the experience down for me, and honestly left it more of a bitter experience.

The first being the non indicative section near the middle with the locks. It took 15 mins just to find where I was going, otherwise I was stuck in a room full of electricity looking at a box. That section could have had a bit more direction just to show where on earth things were going and avoiding making it so much of a lockout. Eventually I figured out the red bubble could go through an invisible wall on the right only breakable by said bubble after finding a different section which had the vague inclination of a path a bubble could take, but only after a lot of wasted time which killed the tempo for me.

The second was the real gamebreaker, the final room. My biggest complaint is that it feels like everything Celeste is not, and these are my reasons.
1. It was too long for a single, non check-pointed room - Celeste has always had a steep difficulty ramp as it goes along, but this has always been complimented by being able to quickly jump back into the fray to take on a room of suitable proportions to the speed of actions. This room was almost comparable to a chore, as although each individual element wasn't difficult, a single mistake sends you right back to the start with only the experience of what killed you this time. At first I didn't mind, after all with every B and C- side the experience of starting again wasn't unfamiliar. What really grated was the fact that to get to the point where things were killing me took about 3-4 minutes of floating slowly around until I either died to the jellyfish being unco-operative (more on that in a sec) or to some unusual thing I hadn't seen before (also more on that later). Eventually it just became boring, I lost the drive that the story had fleshed out and it was replaced with the monotony of slippy balloon ride.
A single checkpoint in that room (perhaps after the exploding fish in the electric zone?) would have made the experience so much less tiresome.

2. The jellyfish is the worst thing to occupy all of the room with - You know, I would rather have taken any number of those spike jumps that occupied the dashless 1A than have to face the amount of time I spent on that damn jelly.
The jelly is slippery controls wise and has too many oddities and pains to be consistent. The first oddity is how the thing is thrown and released in general. You have to face the direction you're throwing and it will throw in an arc until air resistance slows it to null, where it will drop. You can also drop either above or onto the ground by releasing the hold button when you are also holding down. This presents a huge problem in the final room as it is entirely buffered by a vertical air current during one section. Since the air catches it, letting go is fatal, and you can't risk landing on solid surfaces to recharge dash in case you hold down for too long and it releases and flies away. If you lose it you restart.
The slipperiness of the controls adds to the pain as you have to navigate a tight corridor of exploding fish whose explosion radius will kill you if you enter it (courtesy of being flung into the electric death wall surrounding everything). It's also really slow compared to the rest of the game so it accounts for most of the room length.
It also has the single largest troll of an obstacle in that section by which I mean the point where you throw it towards a switch surrounded by electricity and hope it hits, otherwise you restart. I imagine the dev laughed and laughed as he placed that one 3/4 of the way through the huge room with no checkpoints.
Finally it just plain hurts to hold the grab button for that length of time over that many restarts. My hand went numb after try 150 just cause I had been holding the grab button for that long.

Mechanically it just doesn't feel like it lends itself well to what I have played before with Celeste, which is precise and controlled platforming with snappy bursts of action.

3. The room has binoculars but also has 1/3 of the map hidden from its view - Binoculars are one of my favourite things about Celeste, simply because it helps you visualise a particularly long segment for what to do when you're on a strict timer. Perhaps this has made me soft in terms of reactionary platforming, but it's a feature I really like.
During Mr Bone's Wild Balloon ride there is an entire third of the section hidden from view. Given that the entire room is lacking in a floor this is somewhat problematic. Not being able to account for obstacles in the 2/3 of the room is annoying, especially given it is the vertical ascent and descent area. I was really getting some Earthworm Jim "The Descent" vibes as I blindly navigated an electric maze that would instantly end me.
It also contained aforementioned troll switch that would end that attempt if failed.

4. All the exciting stuff had been used - Celeste tends to have pretty interesting rooms on an individual basis, they have little tricks to them and they work towards unifying a theme for the level.
As I mentioned, each individual part was not difficult, and maybe that's what annoyed me about it. Was the fact that it was just padding, using a cumbersome transport with awkward controls over a long period of time with no room for error. It was like having a 5 course meal followed by a ton of meatloaf, except more meatloaf gets added to the plate if you don't finish it in one go. Needless to say, in this metaphor I quickly got sick of meatloaf.

Overall this being the final part of this stage also took away from all of the steam that had been gathered through attempting and beating the previous parts. It wasn't about reaching the end or doing it to put the story to a proper end. It was about as exhilarating as doing the dishes.

Not sure what I was meant to feel after finally beating it, but it wasn't the euphoria of a closing act. It was more of a hollow sigh of at least that's over with. Not really the ending Celeste deserves to be frank. Anyhow that's just my take. May be pessimistic but honestly not sure what else to feel after that.

Loved what was done with the rest of the stage, just my areas of complaint really took away from it.

EDIT: Just saw the Moon Berry achieve FML... Doing that tomorrow.
EDIT 2: Did it, wasn't as bad as I thought but there's another instance of really dodgy throwing that just ends you. Less mad because it's an optional thing, but still sucks that it exists. Took roughly an hour with an added 127 deaths.

Final toll 7 hrs and 8 mins and 1914 deaths for both.

[kalirion]

Well, finished Chapter 8 (A side, 1/5 strawberries, 563 deaths. Had to switch to keyboard for movement during the many-feathers spot.) Guess I'll check out Chapter 9 now, but if the platforming really is harder than the Wings of Vi part I got stuck on, I doubt I'll last long.

Edit: Hmm, watched last few rooms on youtube, and no way am I ever doing that. I'll just turn on Assist Mode once I get to a point where beating my head against the wall no longer feels worth it (and hope Assist Mode is enough to get me through, lol).

[Blurred Aspect]

@kalirion
Hope it goes well for you, the last rooms are a pain and I can't say they're worth it tbh. If you want to use Assist mode, by all means do, the game isn't meant to lock you out as it's always an option and if you really ever feel like you want to try them you can always come back to it later.

My problem was that I had beaten all the content before (A, B and C sides) and 99/100 rooms of Chapter 9 without Assist Mode, so there was no way I was going to let myself turn it on for one room, especially if my only reason for doing it was that I was bored.

[Teniente Mantequilla]

Prepare your anus

[TheNinthAlly]

Originally posted by AlexUltraClick:

Prepare your anus

I’m already well into the thick of it, let me tell you.

[Ritsuki]

Farewell is easy (i mean for me it is now) Honestly it's hard on a blind run, when you don't know what to do. But after you're getting used to play it, it become so easy. Can clear it in less 40 minutes now

[orian34]

It's tough, especially the technical moves like wavedashing, but it's still very enjoyable, and the jellyfish is even pretty chill for a final mechanic, def the best one.

[TheNinthAlly]

Originally posted by orian34:

It's tough, especially the technical moves like wavedashing, but it's still very enjoyable, and the jellyfish is even pretty chill for a final mechanic, def the best one.

Indeed. It’s so refreshing to have a new harder experience

[rory]

Agree that the last room is kinda counter to the game's general design strategy. That one, the autoscroller block with vertical spike pillars, and the long fall with moving stars are the three rooms I'd call out as being kiiinda bad

The last room is at least very easily repeatable once you learn it though, it's on par with the harder A sides in terms of execution really but it just takes 2 minutes to clear which is. A decision. And yeah hiding the entire vertical section from view is rude in a way very little of the rest of the game is.

But like. 95%+ of the rooms are rad as heck at least.

[smeredith]

The only room I've been completely disgusted with so far has been the core iceball room with the switches. The other infamous rooms up to that point have been tough, but they make sense and you feel like you're making progress with more tries. This room doesn't, and a few frames off on an early dash messes up the timing much later.

[rory]

You might be facing the mental issue of not realizing you can dash freely in that room? I know I did for a bit but that room's not too bad if you just, dash everywhere and bounce when you need to.

[Universal921]

I'd come off of a few months of playing and was a bit rusty, but also had collected all 200 berries back then. Whole experience plus moon berry took me about 5 hours and 1431 deaths

[Bio]

I speedrun this game so I'm really good. Still took me about 4-5 hours to complete and it was harder than anything else in the game.

[kalirion]

Ok, used Assist Mode to get through the 15 Crystal Heart barrier, and then had to go back to using it with the wavedash+wavedash+walljump "tutorial" screen. For now I'll try to stick to only the slowdown assist, but probably won't be enough soon - barely enough already.