Monsters

[Skye]

So long story short im fairly sure everyones that played for awhile agrees that monsters rnt in a good spot. Ok so they are the way they are for people that dont know the game/uncordinated play ok... but they also lack skill exspression except for 23 who SHOULD be the target goal for every monster as a lot of people agree he takes skill to play and is hard to play well all the others really dont they all play the same reguardless of the player and follow the algorithm of locate and use a big ability OR spam ur abilities which are both lacking in the player exspression and removes a lot of need for proper set up and thought process to equal results.

Olkoth-The only thing he has going for him is on college and hosp you have 2 abilities that can result in free grabs due to corners and u fall in the locate and use big ability x catagory. Some ways to make him more interesting would be to have his decoys reveal invs outlines while within x ms of itseld till destroyed. Make lightsout ''damage'' flashlights by reducing the speed at which they slow by 40% and reducing stun range by 25% from them for x sec. Replace invis with gruesome appearance which increases his horror by 50% for 20 secs. Keep stigma the same as well as i think its rancor?

23- Hes the goal

Rus- Her traps are fine and good as is. Ambush sucks as is and nots very ambushy... remove the audio que i mean people SHOULD be checking behind them they dont need to know when to do it 2 itd also be creepyier to play against. Tapeworms should hit sanity harder but should have the range cut drastically so that its less a use and forget ability and more of an asset for when your hunting a spec inv or grp of. keep traits the same.

Darcy-shes not so hot right now but she does have a combo setup so no changes.

Assaroth-Ok plz give him just distortion unlimited range as one it removes him have a combo and he has no real catch tool other then making people go insane... which is not reliable otherwise hes useless.distortion traps just an fyi is not a free kill i have lived through it with him using thorns and it requires set up and actually taking the time to do it. And while you can still do it with 75m range is perception is so low that you cant realistically do it. So u have breakdown which doesnt do much, distortion which is unreliable esp if theres a solo split in which case you just wasted a spell and got nothing for it and a trap that isnt unreliable at best.

Idols:

Thorns- Reduces speed of inv by 1% per idol (max of 10%.) Makes it more reliable and gives more identity for fungus.

Coven- Replace endurance with bravery as it gives it a unique spot for monsters to help fight caboosing.

These changes are to make it so you want to combo or setup for your kills beyound one spell as well as taking power away from corner grabs as they are unfun to play against and cant be reliable as not all maps permit it. These changes also wouldnt impact lower level play as monster as they dont really understand the game and would still have the same play style where as in higher levels it permits monsters to set up/combo effectively and hopefully get payoffs over the current pray you get lucky and the inv mess up.

[Vintage]

I'd rather not make disruption back the way it was. It made 1v1s hecka broken in his favor and be teleported across the map isn't fun, it killed Vincent and Kurt too.

I think the only monster that needs a buff is Darcy, who's Cairns should always activate even outside the 75m range but if it is outside that 75m range all is does is teleport, it doesn't highlight or disable flashlights, etc.

Olkoth is fine, he needs no changes since Decoy is an extremely high skill ceiling ability.

Please don't change Rusulka, she's fine the way she is. Buffing her ambush to be silent would make noobs and pros get rekt because she could spam it a ton and no one would hear.

Please don't change Thorns, it would make Stigma even worse on Olkoth. -20% Speed at all times would not be fun.

Instead of reworking Coven, just make an entirely new idol that increases horror, I would love that.

[Skye]

Originally posted by RNG:

I'd rather not make disruption back the way it was. It made 1v1s hecka broken in his favor and be teleported across the map isn't fun, it killed Vincent and Kurt too.

I think the only monster that needs a buff is Darcy, who's Cairns should always activate even outside the 75m range but if it is outside that 75m range all is does is teleport, it doesn't highlight or disable flashlights, etc.

Olkoth is fine, he needs no changes since Decoy is an extremely high skill ceiling ability.

Please don't change Rusulka, she's fine the way she is. Buffing her ambush to be silent would make noobs and pros get rekt because she could spam it a ton and no one would hear.

Please don't change Thorns, it would make Stigma even worse on Olkoth. -20% Speed at all times would not be fun.

Instead of reworking Coven, just make an entirely new idol that increases horror, I would love that.

while yes the 1v1 was painful... the game isnt meant to balanced around that its a 4v1 game thats what matters balance wise and as is he needs something as is he has no way to get grabs outside of mistakes or someone going insane.

Olkoth is only good atm cause of free corner lightouts grabs and inv corner grabs without those hes not oppressive at all. replacing them with abilities you setup to combo and help fix his caboosing issue means if he can get the right positioning he can still get grabs that can be played around and gives him more ways to play.

Rus is just sad shes really really sad. i havnt seen her win or get close to a win in any cordinated lobby.
.
Darcy while yes she could use some help itd have to be stat wise cause as her kit stands its fine she just has to be able to get grabs to use it.

Stigma is only bad if you get grabbed and as it is currently both it and fungus pretty much serve the same function making one lower but consistant makes sense with the other being more situational but stronger.

I wouldnt be apposed to stacking horror idol.

[Scoobie]

I don't really think the creatures need reworks, the creatures as a whole are just in serious need of a buff at high level play. (Or the investigators need a nerf, one or the other)

[Geff]

What's your aim? To make monsters game more tactical? I agree to that.
About Rusalka:
Changing ambush into silent, would be much too strong. That would mean you would have to turn around each 2 secs, that's too tough. Ambush can be used for getting close to invs but then dont attack at once but fall back and hide. That's good enough. Hardly works vs good invs tbh.
I agree to harder tapeworms if they are only placed around monster and nearby invs and not at whole map. Still I think they are already now very good vs bravery. With some invs you can hardly move or do anything while tapeworms which last rather long.
Olkoth:
This buff for the decoys seems nice, I like it.
I think lightsout is already a very strong ability that results in a free catch when used in right moment.
Darcy :
I find her very hard to play. Placing the teleport thing and then using it in the right place and moment is rahter hard to handle. Her chains are fine but at least for me hard to use too. For sure they are worse than lightsout by olkoth.
Astaroth:
As you correctly said he doesnt have a very strong abilitiy that mostly results in a catch (like lightsouts, chains or unfazed).
His traps are easy to detect and are even shining so that really each beginner can see them at once.
The mental breakdown can easily be controlled by good invs that can still steer.
His nerfed teleport isnt strong anymore. The range is not far, invs can find back to team very quickly , especially with a ghost.

Both teleport abilities can be contraproductive, bringing invs to a split tactic, teleported can find clues by themselves, often you dont exactly now if in near of teleport point is a clue.
Improvements:
I'd like that monsters sees outlines of clues everytime without idols.
No more range limits for both teleports !
To equalise that: For Darcy: the purple highlight should go away earlier.
For Astaroth: The cooldown time should be strongly increased. But he could also have a very short highlight for the teleported one.


So:
I also think that monsters in general need a buff.
My suggestions are still:
1.) Make ghosts much worse:
so far they are faster than any inv , can explore well and bring back splitted inv to team.
The nerf they got is hardly noticeable.
-> Decrease speed and exploration of ghosts.
-> Delete ability to delete traps and darcy teleport things. It is enough that ghosts can give hints about traps.
2.) Speed and Exploration Penalty for splitting:
I know that this was denied by many players already (who like stealth or split tactic).
But a 2-2 split by experienced invs team is almost unbeatable. Going Split or stealth should still be a decent tactic but it should give some disadvantages besides being alone/only with 2.

[Vintage]

Originally posted by Geff:

What's your aim? To make monsters game more tactical? I agree to that.
About Rusalka:
Changing ambush into silent, would be much too strong. That would mean you would have to turn around each 2 secs, that's too tough. Ambush can be used for getting close to invs but then dont attack at once but fall back and hide. That's good enough. Hardly works vs good invs tbh.
I agree to harder tapeworms if they are only placed around monster and nearby invs and not at whole map. Still I think they are already now very good vs bravery. With some invs you can hardly move or do anything while tapeworms which last rather long.
Olkoth:
This buff for the decoys seems nice, I like it.
I think lightsout is already a very strong ability that results in a free catch when used in right moment.
Darcy :
I find her very hard to play. Placing the teleport thing and then using it in the right place and moment is rahter hard to handle. Her chains are fine but at least for me hard to use too. For sure they are worse than lightsout by olkoth.
Astaroth:
As you correctly said he doesnt have a very strong abilitiy that mostly results in a catch (like lightsouts, chains or unfazed).
His traps are easy to detect and are even shining so that really each beginner can see them at once.
The mental breakdown can easily be controlled by good invs that can still steer.
His nerfed teleport isnt strong anymore. The range is not far, invs can find back to team very quickly , especially with a ghost.

Both teleport abilities can be contraproductive, bringing invs to a split tactic, teleported can find clues by themselves, often you dont exactly now if in near of teleport point is a clue.
Improvements:
I'd like that monsters sees outlines of clues everytime without idols.
No more range limits for both teleports !
To equalise that: For Darcy: the purple highlight should go away earlier.
For Astaroth: The cooldown time should be strongly increased. But he could also have a very short highlight for the teleported one.


So:
I also think that monsters in general need a buff.
My suggestions are still:
1.) Make ghosts much worse:
so far they are faster than any inv , can explore well and bring back splitted inv to team.
The nerf they got is hardly noticeable.
-> Decrease speed and exploration of ghosts.
-> Delete ability to delete traps and darcy teleport things. It is enough that ghosts can give hints about traps.
2.) Speed and Exploration Penalty for splitting:
I know that this was denied by many players already (who like stealth or split tactic).
But a 2-2 split by experienced invs team is almost unbeatable. Going Split or stealth should still be a decent tactic but it should give some disadvantages besides being alone/only with 2.

The thing is, ghosts are kinda meh right now, and I don't think we should nerf them further. It would just make people want to leave more when they die, and the one thing that triggers me the most is Investigators that leave when they die.

Another thing is that investigators in levels 35+ are still losing 45% of the time, so if anything they should stay the way they are. It's not like they're overpowered. I get that for the super high levels the monster is a joke to play against, but if we balance the game to only the 5% of the player base that really knows what they're doing it'll suck for the other 95% that are still learning the game.

The only real monster's that need a buff are Darcy and Astaroth.

Astaroth just needs breakdown to not allow the Investigators to stun while running and cancel as soon as someone is grabbed to keep it more inline with Mourn, Shutdown, and Unfazed. This would allow him to reposition ahead of the Investigators so they run to him, giving him a true "very hard to escape" monster power like the rest of the other monsters

Darcy just needs Cairn to always teleport, but if the investigator is outside of the 75m range they are only teleported in the general direction of the cairn and don't get punished with the - speed and light being shut off because as it stands its extremely difficult to ever trigger a cairn against mobile investigators since they'll be gone by the time you set up a cairn properly.

Other than that the game is alright, super good Investigators usually always win, but at the very least only 5% player ads is good enough to win against the monster all the time, so we shouldn't be merging the Investigators......yet.

[WaaghMan]

Hi,

Just wanted to tell: Please continue discussing this. Even if there won't be any immediate change for now, I'll surely follow this and probably have it in mind for the future.

[Vintage]

Originally posted by WaaghMan:

Hi,

Just wanted to tell: Please continue discussing this. Even if there won't be any immediate change for now, I'll surely follow this and probably have it in mind for the future.

Glad to know what we're discussing is important, even if you don't respond.

[Scoobie]

I think it'd be interesting if Astaroth could turn off his Breakdown whenever he wanted so long as he wasn't stunned. That way if investigators try to kamikaze into him, he can time it just right to screw over the investigator trying to stun.

IMO Breakdown should really chop more off of the glow stick cool down as well. That combined with being able to turn Breakdown off on his own would let him get (almost) free grabs if people try to stun him during Breakdown.

[Scoobie]

Originally posted by Pwninggrenades ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥:

Don't creatures win the majority of the games, shouldnt we be nerfing the really good ones and buffing darcy since she is bad

Creatures win majority of LOW level games because creature is a lot easier to pick up and play than investigator (since investigator takes actual team work). Meanwhile at high level play, the creature is just a mild inconvience to your clue finding simulator.

[Skye]

Originally posted by Geff:

What's your aim? To make monsters game more tactical? I agree to that.
About Rusalka:
Changing ambush into silent, would be much too strong. That would mean you would have to turn around each 2 secs, that's too tough. Ambush can be used for getting close to invs but then dont attack at once but fall back and hide. That's good enough. Hardly works vs good invs tbh.
I agree to harder tapeworms if they are only placed around monster and nearby invs and not at whole map. Still I think they are already now very good vs bravery. With some invs you can hardly move or do anything while tapeworms which last rather long.
Olkoth:
This buff for the decoys seems nice, I like it.
I think lightsout is already a very strong ability that results in a free catch when used in right moment.
Darcy :
I find her very hard to play. Placing the teleport thing and then using it in the right place and moment is rahter hard to handle. Her chains are fine but at least for me hard to use too. For sure they are worse than lightsout by olkoth.
Astaroth:
As you correctly said he doesnt have a very strong abilitiy that mostly results in a catch (like lightsouts, chains or unfazed).
His traps are easy to detect and are even shining so that really each beginner can see them at once.
The mental breakdown can easily be controlled by good invs that can still steer.
His nerfed teleport isnt strong anymore. The range is not far, invs can find back to team very quickly , especially with a ghost.

Both teleport abilities can be contraproductive, bringing invs to a split tactic, teleported can find clues by themselves, often you dont exactly now if in near of teleport point is a clue.
Improvements:
I'd like that monsters sees outlines of clues everytime without idols.
No more range limits for both teleports !
To equalise that: For Darcy: the purple highlight should go away earlier.
For Astaroth: The cooldown time should be strongly increased. But he could also have a very short highlight for the teleported one.


So:
I also think that monsters in general need a buff.
My suggestions are still:
1.) Make ghosts much worse:
so far they are faster than any inv , can explore well and bring back splitted inv to team.
The nerf they got is hardly noticeable.
-> Decrease speed and exploration of ghosts.
-> Delete ability to delete traps and darcy teleport things. It is enough that ghosts can give hints about traps.
2.) Speed and Exploration Penalty for splitting:
I know that this was denied by many players already (who like stealth or split tactic).
But a 2-2 split by experienced invs team is almost unbeatable. Going Split or stealth should still be a decent tactic but it should give some disadvantages besides being alone/only with 2.

My goal is i want monster grabs to be more O well they played that really well more then o well not much i can do to the corner grab or up close use of one spell over and over again. I also feel that making monster abilities play of eachother makes them way more interesting to play and grants them a highier skill cap. Currently corner grabs are the only real way to grab people most of the time nand u cant even do that on every map. Making the monsters stronger AND require more skill means that at lower levels there typically less pubstompy but at higher level have access to winning against strong players (ideally.) 23 is a good example as he can find the inv realitively quicky while have a passive that allows him to mind game people with both unfazed and scarecrow. He also has the horror to make people go insane and not to be caboosed for ages. Darcy HAS to land a grab into cairn to be good but as is if you just check behind you or have a wide spread flashlight in front she cant do much sense resist takes too long to stack to start getting grabs sense the changes and tim as the monster is already against you. Olkoth is a prime offender of use one spell get a free grab in uncordinated while with cordinated hes a joke as he wont encounter you enough times to kill the grp. Asaroth is fun but he only catches mistakes and has no catch tool anymore the best you can do is seperate people with distortion and hope theres no solo split in which case its a 100% wasted use and on open maps it doesnt work usually. Rus is just bad ambush is useless with the audio que tapeworms is w/e as its kinda like scarecrows but you have to deal with those where tapeworms you look up and forget them. Her only redeming spell is her trap which on its own isnt enough to win a game and should be.

[Skye]

Originally posted by Scoobie101:

I think it'd be interesting if Astaroth could turn off his Breakdown whenever he wanted so long as he wasn't stunned. That way if investigators try to kamikaze into him, he can time it just right to screw over the investigator trying to stun.

IMO Breakdown should really chop more off of the glow stick cool down as well. That combined with being able to turn Breakdown off on his own would let him get (almost) free grabs if people try to stun him during Breakdown.

i think maybe making breakdown have a higher sanity drop from running during it and hindering tiredness after the efffect for a proloinged time would make it acceptable but then distortion and especially his traps would be lackluster most of the time still =P

[Brain98]

Originally posted by Pwninggrenades ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥:

Originally posted by Scoobie101:

Creatures win majority of LOW level games because creature is a lot easier to pick up and play than investigator (since investigator takes actual team work). Meanwhile at high level play, the creature is just a mild inconvience to your clue finding simulator.

This game is really small, getting noobs stomped by the creature every game does not help our already tiny playerbase, i just buyed this game and i get stomped by the creature in 2/3 of my games because they just spam idols around tapes and camp em

It's like any game out there... no one immedietly wins every game they play especially in a 4v1 when they're new. Those people have to understand the game is highly skill based and takes time to master. There won't be any one-man armies on the investigator side. You have to band together to win, which is how it should be.

On topic: I would mostly like to see a buff to Darcy in some way. However, I have no idea what kind of change I would like to see yet so I'm alright with the current state. As for the other monsters, they seem like they're in a decent place. No matter who I face as the monster, I usually end up with 1-2 dead a game if not more.

Whatever happens, don't remove the noise from Rusalka's ambush... that would be crazy difficult for anyone to keep up with mid-late game.

[Skye]

Originally posted by Brain98:

Originally posted by Pwninggrenades ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥:

This game is really small, getting noobs stomped by the creature every game does not help our already tiny playerbase, i just buyed this game and i get stomped by the creature in 2/3 of my games because they just spam idols around tapes and camp em

It's like any game out there... no one immedietly wins every game they play especially in a 4v1 when they're new. Those people have to understand the game is highly skill based and takes time to master. There won't be any one-man armies on the investigator side. You have to band together to win, which is how it should be.

On topic: I would mostly like to see a buff to Darcy in some way. However, I have no idea what kind of change I would like to see yet so I'm alright with the current state. As for the other monsters, they seem like they're in a decent place. No matter who I face as the monster, I usually end up with 1-2 dead a game if not more.

Whatever happens, don't remove the noise from Rusalka's ambush... that would be crazy difficult for anyone to keep up with mid-late game.

removing the noise from ambush allows for its cd to be raised to compensate cause as is its pretty much a dead ability. i mean prescience has no noise even if your in the area of spawn soooo i dont understand why ambush shouldnt i mean its suppose to b an AMBUSH not a giant alarm saying im behind u.

[Skye]

Originally posted by WaaghMan:

Hi,

Just wanted to tell: Please continue discussing this. Even if there won't be any immediate change for now, I'll surely follow this and probably have it in mind for the future.

What would u like specifically discussed?

[Skye]

Just allowing everyone to know that i only posted this post cause after playing about 7ish games with 4 other vets with everyone using the WN2 discord for coms had 7 games that all were heavily extremely heavily inv sided games that makes the monster look like a joke. all 5 were played and the closest was one game where there was one person left after the 2nd to last sigil was broken and every death was an isolated grab from inv mistakes thats it. Every game was a 2/2 split with fairly standard builds the games usually lasted around 9 mins and the amount of monster encounters was always less then the number of lives in the game.