CSA Antietam...changes a man.

[Bastille]

So I just finished Antietam as CSA. I had previously completed a campaign as the Union and I figured I'd try the other side. Bgen difficulty.

Oh boy. I managed to get a victory and never lost Dunker Church, but I took 26k casualties. I defended forward using the treelines and managed to hold the bridges throughout as well. But since the corps on Dunker Church was my best corps it took disproportionate losses. My all star unit was a unit of Sharpshooters with Whitworths (TS) which got like 2.5k kills. But my top infantry brigade with Fayettevilles got murdered (500 men left) and a lot of my brigades in 1st and 2nd corps were destroyed or down to 300 or so men.

26k casualties (fielded 58k originally) against 50k Union (fielding ~75k).

I guess I'm just recovering haha. Overall I really enjoyed the battle and I felt like it tethered on the edge quite a few times as they were pushing masses of brigades on Dunker Church and charging everywhere.

Any advice on how to minimize casualties the next time around?

[Monsoon]

I just had this same experience. My first CSA MG run. I took 28K losses after fielding an army of 54K. The Union suffered 53k losses from an army of 84k. I held the day, but my 1st Corp, which was the heart of my army, was completely decimated.

I don't see a way forward in my game.

[pandakraut]

Here are a few different examples of continuing to push forward so that the AI never has a chance to leverage their numbers advantage and keeping them in the open more.
Small unit army: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy8J6qs9HZw&list=PLNFTAFys32_-N-fIfWJgRSJIhVtOZjEGe&index=24

large unit army: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_hLXtVTESQ&list=PLt-JAMmvyAGmA8TU5EC8hHbGPzPCnlYPe&index=35

alternate large unit army: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb_zvLJJENU&list=PLfSvZFYfSsUP3chKRzX7peXsKWCnZKuEU&index=49

[Bastille]

Originally posted by Monsoon:

I just had this same experience. My first CSA MG run. I took 28K losses after fielding an army of 54K. The Union suffered 53k losses from an army of 84k. I held the day, but my 1st Corp, which was the heart of my army, was completely decimated.

I don't see a way forward in my game.

I think it looks worse than it is afterwards. If you eked out a victory, you should be fine. The rewards in Manpower and $$$ for victory are substantial (if you maxed out politics), so I think the devs expected Antietam to be a gut punch (which it was historically). You will probably have to reconstitute smaller brigades (I am rolling with 1.5k men brigades, eventually planning to increase to 2k once the situation improves), but after the victory I captured 10k Harpers Ferry rifles. With what you recovered and provided you had some MP left in your pool you should be fine, you just have to start from quasi scratch.

Farming the minor battles in the following chapter will also keep you topped up if you can avoid taking too many casualties.

[Bastille]

Thank you Pandakraut, I definitely think I could have been more aggressive earlier on, but it was also the first time I played the battle on the CSA side, so I try not to be too gamey about it either and experience each battle with minimal hindsight (even though I did visit most of the major battlefields).

I made minimal use of skirmishers in my union campaign, but they're really a good force multiplier as well when equipped with the high end weapons.

[Monsoon]

Great videos Panda. Sarg, I agree. It was a gut punch historically, and the game did a great job of replicating it. Lee basically took the rest of 1862 rebuilding his army, and I will need to do the same.

[gooberwoc]

One way I have managed to keep my infantry casualties lower is deploying skirmishers and having them sit in front of their brigade, they might take 40% or 50% casualties but the AI tends to focus its shooting on the skirmish line and not on the main body of the brigade.

[MesquiteThorn]

Originally posted by pandakraut:

Here are a few different examples of continuing to push forward so that the AI never has a chance to leverage their numbers advantage and keeping them in the open more.
Small unit army: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy8J6qs9HZw&list=PLNFTAFys32_-N-fIfWJgRSJIhVtOZjEGe&index=24

large unit army: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_hLXtVTESQ&list=PLt-JAMmvyAGmA8TU5EC8hHbGPzPCnlYPe&index=35

alternate large unit army: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb_zvLJJENU&list=PLfSvZFYfSsUP3chKRzX7peXsKWCnZKuEU&index=49

pandakraut, have you done the same thing with ModV1.8.1? My principle problem with 1.8.1 as the CSA on MG is the lack of weapons in the armory, and of course there are no captured weapons to speak of (which, btw, takes away an historical element of the game). In response to the paucity of weapons, I tried using smaller brigades, but by Chancellorsville, I was overwhelmed by the yanks.

Yes, I pushed them off the Chancellorsville VP site...3 times on day one, then I went for a Day 2 victory and pushed them off 3 times on Day 2; but in both cases I just didn't have enough bodies to keep my claim to the VP flag.

I've restarted the campaign, and I'm about to begin the 2nd Manassas battle. I'm not too worried about 2nd Manassas, but in the first campaign, it was really Antietam that did me in.

[pandakraut]

Originally posted by MesquiteThorn:

pandakraut, have you done the same thing with ModV1.8.1? My principle problem with 1.8.1 as the CSA on MG is the lack of weapons in the armory, and of course there are no captured weapons to speak of (which, btw, takes away an historical element of the game). In response to the paucity of weapons, I tried using smaller brigades, but by Chancellorsville, I was overwhelmed by the yanks.

Yes, I pushed them off the Chancellorsville VP site...3 times on day one, then I went for a Day 2 victory and pushed them off 3 times on Day 2; but in both cases I just didn't have enough bodies to keep my claim to the VP flag.

I've restarted the campaign, and I'm about to begin the 2nd Manassas battle. I'm not too worried about 2nd Manassas, but in the first campaign, it was really Antietam that did me in.

My setup for the battle wouldn't change very much if I redid it using 1.8. Would need to be a bit more careful with my artillery due to the counterbattery AI logic, but otherwise I'd play the battle effectively the same way.

As long as I'm wiping out the enemy in nearly every battle, and spending my reputation on the efficient weapon buys, I've never felt short on equipment. I rarely bother buying infantry weapons until the end of the campaign where money doesn't matter and instead sustain almost entirely off captured weapons.

If you're trying to limit casualties at Chancellorsville there's no reason to rush to win on day 2. Spend the first two days picking off what you can, so that on the third day you can push them off the VP without too much trouble. Or go warbob's route and you'll end up having to hold off killing everything so you don't end the battle prematurely.

[MesquiteThorn]

Actually, I forgot there was a Day 3 at Chancellorsville.

I noticed while watching your Antietam that where you have sharpshooters, I have cav, and where you have cav, I have infantry. I've had one sharpshooter unit in the center corps and 2 or 3 in the 3rd Corps.

The reason I'm so dedicated to eliminating the yank artillery is that they will take out my artillery unless I position mine well behind my infantry.

I haven't watched the end of your video to see how you responded to the attacks across the bridges, but I will later this week. Thanks for providing a different perspective.

[Steiner]

You need to attack as Confederates from the beginning and defeat them in detail. Here in one of my playthroughs on BG I wiped out the entire Federal Army https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_ufXS8uDFw

[Steiner]

Playing as Confederates its important to inflict as many casualties as you can in every single battle on the Federals. Win every battle with a casualtie rate of at least 2/1 or 3/1. This will keep their units smaller than your own ones. Flank a lot, defeat them in detail. Be aggressive and not defensive. Another map where you can wipe them completely out is the 2nd Bull Run battle. Its doable https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2245013358

[MesquiteThorn]

Originally posted by Sgt. S. Peaker 1st MRB:

Thank you Pandakraut, I definitely think I could have been more aggressive earlier on, but it was also the first time I played the battle on the CSA side, so I try not to be too gamey about it either and experience each battle with minimal hindsight (even though I did visit most of the major battlefields).

I made minimal use of skirmishers in my union campaign, but they're really a good force multiplier as well when equipped with the high end weapons.

[Especially: "...so I try not to be too gamey about it..."]

If your profile avatar suggests military experience, or at least, close relationship with someone who was a 1st MarDiv Marine Raider in WW2 (the Marines subsequently dropped the chevron distinction between "staff sergeant" and "platoon sergeant"...they all have rockers now), then I'm wondering how you get your mind around POW's keeping their weapons, and "shattered" enemy units at port-arms sauntering through your battlelines unmolested? Those things in particular are the sort of things that can generate a visceral reaction.

Jonny and pandakraut fixed a long list of problems in UGCW, but these two remain, and I wonder if they are fixable.

[Bastille]

Originally posted by MesquiteThorn:

Originally posted by Sgt. S. Peaker 1st MRB:

Thank you Pandakraut, I definitely think I could have been more aggressive earlier on, but it was also the first time I played the battle on the CSA side, so I try not to be too gamey about it either and experience each battle with minimal hindsight (even though I did visit most of the major battlefields).

I made minimal use of skirmishers in my union campaign, but they're really a good force multiplier as well when equipped with the high end weapons.

[Especially: "...so I try not to be too gamey about it..."]

If your profile avatar suggests military experience, or at least, close relationship with someone who was a 1st MarDiv Marine Raider in WW2 (the Marines subsequently dropped the chevron distinction between "staff sergeant" and "platoon sergeant"...they all have rockers now), then I'm wondering how you get your mind around POW's keeping their weapons, and "shattered" enemy units at port-arms sauntering through your battlelines unmolested? Those things in particular are the sort of things that can generate a visceral reaction.

Jonny and pandakraut fixed a long list of problems in UGCW, but these two remain, and I wonder if they are fixable.

I'm not related to or have served in any marine units, I just want to make that clear to avoid any stolen valor confusion. These are the tags for my Day of Defeat clan/realism unit of which I have been a part of for a while but am no longer active in.

[Big K]

A couple of things on Antietam I found beneficial as the CSA.

At the start, hold that hill flag over on the left side (I forget the name). If you hold it until the first phase is over, you'll receive reinforcements. If you lose it, you won't.

Second, I try to hold the forest over on the right flank of Dunker Church as long as possible, even to fall back and stay perpendicular to my fortifications. This will prevent the Union from flanking your fortified positions.

Third, when the map opens up to reveal the bridge on the bottom right corner, place two brigades and three artillery close in for defending. You'll shred and route all units coming over the bridge (except for a glitchy cav unit that runs straight through any units you have there).

[MesquiteThorn]

I'm pretty sure you get the reinforcements to your left flank corps even if you lose control of the flag at Nicodemus Hill.