Ultimate General: Civil War

Ultimate General: Civil War

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CivWar64 Mar 17, 2018 @ 10:45am
What each Army Organization gets you
On replaying the CSA campaign (BG difficulty), I've been paying close attention to what each increase in Army Organization level did so that I could maximize either the number of men or the number of Brigades going into the upcoming battles. I found an interesting point.

If you are at level 1 or 2, you only have 1 Corps. But after 1st Bull Run, those levels give you a 2nd Corps.

Likewise level 4 pre-Shiloh only give you 2 Corps, but after Shiloh it gives you 3 Corps.

It's not until the 10th battle (Gaines Mill) that you are allowed to bring in more than 1 Corps (and that battle allows 4 Corps!)

Anyway, here is what I found in case it helps anyone (I think I got the level info right):
Level -- #Corps/#Divisions-per-Corps/#Brigades-per-Division/#Men-per-Brigade [#Brigades/Corps]
0 – Does not exist (any initial option gives 1 Army Organization as a minimum)
1 – 1C/2D/3B/1500M [6B/C] ; Post 1st Bull Run: 2C/2D/3B/1500M [6B/C]
2 – 1C/2D/4B/1500M [8B/C] ; Post 1st Bull Run: 2C/2D/4B/1500M [8B/C]
(After 1st Bull Run, you automatically get a second Corps slot)
3 – 2C/3D/4B/1500M [12B/C] (not sure if this changes Post Shiloh)
4 – 2C/3D/4B/2000M [12B/C] ; Post Shiloh: 3C/3D/4B/2000M [12B/C]
(After Shiloh, you automatically get a third Corps slot)
5 – 3C/3D/5B/2000M [15B/C]
6 – 3C/4D/5B/2000M [20B/C]
7 – 3C/4D/5B/2500M [20B/C]
8 – 4C/4D/5B/2500M [20B/C]
9 – 4C/4D/6B/2500M [24B/C]
10 – 5C/4D/6B/2500M [24B/C]

I'm going to put this in my Newbie guide, along with the number of Corps and Brigades you are allowed for each battle. If any of you think it's helpful to also include that here, let me know.
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Showing 1-15 of 23 comments
Ninjasquirrel Mar 17, 2018 @ 12:19pm 
Good info, thanks for putting this out.
Kristoph42 Mar 17, 2018 @ 12:43pm 
It is so much nicer when you can see it written out. You should spell out everything in the Newbie Guide. Like . . . Army Organization 5 will give you 3 Corps of 3 Divisions with 5 Brigades in each division. Maximum Infantry strength of 2,000 men per brigade.
CivWar64 Mar 17, 2018 @ 1:02pm 
Originally posted by Kristoph42:
It is so much nicer when you can see it written out. You should spell out everything in the Newbie Guide. Like . . . Army Organization 5 will give you 3 Corps of 3 Divisions with 5 Brigades in each division. Maximum Infantry strength of 2,000 men per brigade.
Yes, will do! Thanks for the suggestion. (I'm also going to BOLD the one that changed from one level to another to make it easier to spot).
Arkady2000 Mar 17, 2018 @ 2:10pm 
Good, together with information with corps/brigades allowances per battle it will be very helpfull
CivWar64 Mar 17, 2018 @ 3:49pm 
I probably need to add more words for the Newbie guide, but here is a draft of what each battle allows you to field (as the CSA in BG difficulty). {GB}=Grand Battle

[#] = one Corp, #Brigades in that Corps. Ex. [15] + [10] means 1 Corp of 15 Brigades and 1 Corp of 10 Brigades


1-Potomic Fort [0] (Computer supplies all the Brigades)
2-NewPort News [3]
3{GB}-1st Bull Run [4] (Computer supplies all the Reinforcement Brigades)
------
4-Stay Alert [10]
5-Ambush Convoy [10]
6{GB}-Shiloh [20] (So higher Army Organization levels help here)
------
7-1st Winchester [8]
8-Cross Keys [10]
9-Post Republic [9]
10{GB}-Gaines Mill – Frontal Attack: [30 total from 2 Corps] + Flank Right: [25 total from 2 Corps] – At Organization 4, with only 2 Corp, I put 1 Corps in Attack and 1 in Flank Right
------
11{GB}-Malvern Hill – First Attack: [20] + Second Attack: [20] + Reserves: [20 total from 2 Corps] i.e. 4 Corps Max (With only 2 Corp, nothing goes into the Reserves slots)
------
12-Ceder Mountain [15]
13-Manassas Depot [0] (Computer supplies all the units)
14{GB}-2nd Bull Run – Diversion: [25] + Reinforcements: [60 total from 3 Corps]
-----
15-Chantilly [13]
16-Harpers Ferry aka Weapons Factory [12]
17{GB}-Antietam aka Sharpsburg – Left: [20] + Right: [20] + Center: [20} + Reinforcements: [20 total from 2 Corps]
------
18-Corinth [15]
19-Prairie Grove [12]
20{GB}-Fredericksburg – Left: [25] + Center: [25] + Right: [25] + Reinforcements: [50 total from 2 Corps] (first battle allowing 5 Corps)
----
21-Everettsville [15]
22{GB}-Stones River – Left: [20] + Reserves: [20] + Right: [20]
----
23-1st Franklin [12]
24-Blackwater Heights [20]
25-Rio Hill [10]
26{BG}-Chancellorsville – Flanking [25] + Center [25]
26a-Salem’s Church (post Chancellorsville automatic mini-battle) [10]
----
27-Brandy Station [0] (Computer supplies all the Brigades)
28{BG}-Gettysburg – 1st Attack [20] + 2nd Attack [15] + Reinforcements [25]
----
29-Siege of Jackson [20]
30{GB}-Chickamauga – Vanguard [25] + Day 2 Reinforcements [25]
----
31-Mansfield [25]
32-Saunder’s Farm [25] + Reinforcements [10]
33-Laurel Hill [25]
34{GB}-Cold Harbor – Left: [25} + Right: [25] + Tomorrow’s Reinforcements [15]
----
35-Hall’s Ferry [25] + Reinforcements [25]
36-Hardin Pike [25] + Reinforcements [25]
37{GB}-Washington – Main Attack: [50 total from 2 corps] + ] + 2nd Attack [25] + Right Flank [25] + Left Flank [25]
CivWar64 Mar 17, 2018 @ 3:53pm 
Oops..Antietam is the first battle allowing 5 Corps
Kristoph42 Mar 17, 2018 @ 5:48pm 
Stay Alert you can bring 11. Port Republic you can bring 10. Chantilly you can bring 14. Those are the only three battles that I know of where you can bring an extra unit and that unit will deploy with your other troops.
D-Dub Mar 17, 2018 @ 9:21pm 
This is great, CW64.

One consideration: add notes/suggestions on which AO is "recommended" or even "necessary" for various stages of the campaign. For example, from my experience, USA has to have 3 AO for SHILOH, but CSA needs 5 AO for the same. Then, USA needs 6 AO by GAINES MILL or MALVERN HILL, while CSA needs 6 for ANTIETAM -- and then can sit on that basically until COLD HARBOR -- or so my playing experience goes.

(But, yes, absolutely: differing playing-styles and skill-levels, etc., will factor in. Perhaps any recommendations need to account for this.)

Another consideration: I am currently working on comprehensive PHASING overviews. Not sure if collaboration would be easier or better or whatever, but let me share my basic break-down so you can share any thoughts, if you care to. (By the way, I've got this worked out for about half of the USA campaign and all but the final WASHINGTON sub-campaign for CSA. Open to any suggestions or better approaches or what have you n such.) Here it is:

BATTLE NAME - DATE

OVERALL DEPLOYMENT:
* __________: __ bdes (1 deploy-box)

DAY 1 (date) - PHASE 1: “[caption]”
TIME:
TIMER:
MAP:
DEPLOY-FORCE:
POSITIONING:
OBJECTIVES:
NOTES:
*
*
*
CivWar64 Mar 18, 2018 @ 11:45am 
Originally posted by D-Dub:
This is great, CW64.

One consideration: add notes/suggestions on which AO is "recommended" or even "necessary" for various stages of the campaign. For example, from my experience, USA has to have 3 AO for SHILOH, but CSA needs 5 AO for the same. Then, USA needs 6 AO by GAINES MILL or MALVERN HILL, while CSA needs 6 for ANTIETAM -- and then can sit on that basically until COLD HARBOR -- or so my playing experience goes.

(But, yes, absolutely: differing playing-styles and skill-levels, etc., will factor in. Perhaps any recommendations need to account for this.)

Another consideration: I am currently working on comprehensive PHASING overviews. Not sure if collaboration would be easier or better or whatever, but let me share my basic break-down so you can share any thoughts, if you care to. (By the way, I've got this worked out for about half of the USA campaign and all but the final WASHINGTON sub-campaign for CSA. Open to any suggestions or better approaches or what have you n such.) Here it is:

BATTLE NAME - DATE

OVERALL DEPLOYMENT:
* __________: __ bdes (1 deploy-box)

DAY 1 (date) - PHASE 1: “[caption]”
TIME:
TIMER:
MAP:
DEPLOY-FORCE:
POSITIONING:
OBJECTIVES:
NOTES:
*
*
*
Wow, D-Dub. That's a heck of a lot of info you're capturing. After I finish the last 3 battles as CSA in BG mode, I'm going to replay the Union campaign in BG, so I'll help where I can (at least to check what you've got so far). I like your idea of including suggestions in my list -- I've saved my camp status before and after each battle, so I can go back and look at my unit sizes and selections.
D-Dub Mar 18, 2018 @ 7:14pm 
Thanks, CW64. I'm getting close to having something postable, but it's going to need a lot of help and revision and double-checking and all, I expect.

It's actually been a ton of fun to track all of this, even though it's also been a bit of a headache. Really positively, it has slowed me down during battles, which is one of my keys to success as a UGCW generalissimo-wannabe, and it's shedding light on some interesting things.

(Perhaps not so important but interesting: I discovered that, as CSA, we can bring a 4th corps into Gettysburg -- just before the PICKETT'S CHARGE phase of Day 3. Who knew?! As interesting but rather more important: we get EXTRA TIME after the FINISH button pops up for more than half of the battles -- and this seems to be triggered by NOT achieving the key objectives. It surely helps to know this before we go into a battle, even though such pre-knowledge could be seen as "bad-gamey", I suppose.)

Directly back to your Army Org research: I would really get a lot out of recommendations from you & others about when my USA or CSA army needs to hit AO this or AO that. This game seems to have critical tipping-points with numbers of corps that we can bring to battle, but it doesn't make those clear in-game.
Kristoph42 Mar 18, 2018 @ 8:55pm 
@D-Dub . . . I would love to assist. I have notes for most of the battles. Might not be as detailed as you would like, but I have notes, LOL. Just send me a "send a message' from my profile page. Sometime this week, Iam going to start and finish Washington. In my quest for 1 million INF kills. When that is over I can assist you more.
D-Dub Mar 19, 2018 @ 7:21am 
Originally posted by Kristoph42:
@D-Dub . . . I would love to assist. I have notes for most of the battles. Might not be as detailed as you would like, but I have notes, LOL. Just send me a "send a message' from my profile page. Sometime this week, Iam going to start and finish Washington. In my quest for 1 million INF kills. When that is over I can assist you more.

Awesome, K42. Many thanks -- and will do. My goal is to be as detailed and accurate as possible per my own playing, then have everybody else pile on with corrections and additions and all the rest. There is a lot that depends on trigger-factors that I can't identify. Maybe they can't be identified without coding insight or something? But we can all compare notes and get a ballpark-type of understanding of each battle, I think.

Good luck with the continuing charge towards 1 million INF-kills!
CivWar64 Mar 19, 2018 @ 1:29pm 
@D-Dub . . .re. a 4th Corps at Gettysburg. Very interesting. I didn't start building a 4th (or 5th) Corps until the very last few battles before Washington, since all the previous battles indicate they only allow 1, 2, or 3 Corps. Maybe next time I'll put in 1 Division of a couple small Brigades as an experiment.
CivWar64 Mar 24, 2018 @ 9:34am 
Originally posted by Kristoph42:
Stay Alert you can bring 11. Port Republic you can bring 10. Chantilly you can bring 14. Those are the only three battles that I know of where you can bring an extra unit and that unit will deploy with your other troops.

Hey--great discovery, Kristoph42! I went back and created 12 Brigades for Stay Alert (3 Divisions of 4 Brigades) which says you can only bring 10. Sure enough 11 showed up (6 at the battle start, and 5 a bit later as reinforcements. It left off the very last (12th) brigade of the 3rd Division).

Sneaky sneaky! I think going forward I'll have an extra unit of cheap skirms over the max number of brigades listed as a just-in-case when I replay as the Union to see if any happen there also.
D-Dub Mar 24, 2018 @ 10:49am 
There are little secrets all over the place, I'm finding, and of the helpful sort: what K42 found and then a lot involving VPs, such as what came up in another thread recently about Fred'burg's first day/phase. That 4th corps for CSA at G-burg is merely "interesting", not so helpful, I would say: can't see how it would make a significant difference, but maybe. It is weird that it just pops up without any highlighting.

(BTW, double-checked and it's a 4th AND 5th corps, "RESERVES", 50 bdes total possible, that we can bring to the PICKETT'S CHARGE phase. Wow.)

Speaking of secrets, and direct to this thread, I say again that AO strikes me as a basic "secret" in this game. When you start to master having enough corps for this and that Grand Battle a/o sub-campaign, then it makes a difference -- in itself and through ripple-effect from not wasting Career Points on AO before it's really needed.

(Is it possible to merge threads? This goes hand-in-hand with bunny32794's guide on "how big you should be at each battle" -- and Bramborough's recent post, in particular, contributes nicely to this discussion.)
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Date Posted: Mar 17, 2018 @ 10:45am
Posts: 23