Capturing Units

[David_M]

Howdy, fellow generals!

I'm fairly new to UGCW (about 20 hours or so in), and I've read all the guides on here (very helpful stuff), but I nonetheless have a few questions. One of them is how to capture units?

I mean I've done it. I just don't understand what forces a unit to surrender. Sometimes when my cavalry is riding down that routing unit, they just give up. Sometimes I just end up killing them all.

And on that subject, I'm reasonably certain I've never managed to capture an enemy battery. The just die or go into perma-routed mode (where you see the troops running, but their icon disappears).

Any thoughts, tips, or advice for me? Much appreciated!

[ShooterMcGavin]

you cant capture their Arty, but they do show up in your Armory when the battle is over.

[Ruffio]

Enemy batteries I guess get salvaged for guns after the battle. I had enemy units surrender when being overwhelmed on all fronts. I guess morale have to drop to a certain level and maybe the officer of the unit need to die, idk.

[David_M]

Originally posted by Screaming-Eagles101:

you cant capture their Arty, but they do show up in your Armory when the battle is over.

Good to know! But how do I know what I've captured? Just by remembering what I had earlier and noting the difference?

[Ruffio]

Originally posted by Liberty or Death:

Originally posted by Screaming-Eagles101:

you cant capture their Arty, but they do show up in your Armory when the battle is over.

Good to know! But how do I know what I've captured? Just by remembering what I had earlier and noting the difference?

You see that under your after battle report, under the goods tab.

[Solar Maximus]

Capturing:

To be honest, nobody knows for certain the true requirements causing a capture to happen. Like, as if there were some formula. Not even the most experienced and advanced players know for a certainty. However, there are several common denominators that always seem to be present when the surrender happens. In general the items listed below will be present in combination, and not be just a single item.

1) The brigade's morale needs to be low. This one is fairly universal accepted. How low does it need to be. Nobody really knows. A couple of very knowledgable guys say that low condition is also a big factor. It does appear that the combination of low morale and condition at the same time contribute to surrendering.

2) The brigade generally needs to be completely surrounded, while also needing the units surrounding them to be touching the enemy brigade. Nobody really knows for example that if 4 units are doing the surrounding, do all 4 need to be touching? Or just 2 of them? But it does seem to be consistent that brigades surrendering have enemy units touching them at the moment of surrender. And that there is no escape route.

3) Brigades do seem to surrender a lot more easily when their troop numbers have diminished to some low % of their starting troop count. It seems to be on the order of 25-35%, or less. BUT, just being that low and not also having other factors present will not cause them to surrender. I have captured infantry brigades as high as 850 troops, but I know for sure that they started no lower than 2,500, which is 34%.

Now then, there are probably some other points folks might put in here. If so, please add your input. So, when brigades surrender, there are almost always some combination of the above three points present and happening simultaneously.

Why does a brigade NOT surrender when all three of the above are present, and also the items have been present for some time? As we all know our units are basically programmed to destroy the enemy. They are firing upon the poor brigade as it tries to escape, even while we command our brigades to encircle, or attempt to trap the enemy in the corner of the map. Sometimes the brigade just shatters before it can surrender. It's entirely possible that there is a minimum combination of morale-condition-troop count that must be met before a brigade can surrender. Conversely, there may also be a low threshold of these three items, such that if the brigade falls below such threshold, then it shatters rather than surrenders.

As an experiment, one of these days I'm going to pause the game when an ideal situation arrises for surrender, and put the "Hold Fire" command on all my brigades attempting to force the surrender. Then they cannot destroy the enemy before it can surrender. It would interesting to see if I can cause a surrender EVERY time that way.

[Captain2]

Just wondering, I've captured several enemy units and on occasion they've been rather lightly defended. The enemy usually makes a path right for them, what happens if the enemy gets to a captured unit?

[Solar Maximus]

If the ai can get a unit to touch the surrendered brigade, then it is liberated, and becomes available again for battle. The color inside its unit shield will turn back to its normal color. It is noteworthy that the catpured brigade is effectively "resting" while just sitting there where you think it is out of the way, too far for the ai to reach. If you click on a surrendered brigade you can see its stats improving. So, once liberated it can immediately do battle.

You can do the same for your own brigades that have been captured...liberate them by merely touching them with one of your own units. In fact this is one of the few things your Corps General can do by direct interaction. And he's quick about it since he is a cavalry unit by default.

[Solar Maximus]

Another interesting point for capturing is that you basically cannot prevent "melee" when your units are touching the enemy brigade. Unless your unit doing the touching is essentially out of condition, since too low of condition will disallow charging and melee.

However, if there is plenty of condition, then melee ensues. Melee causes a fairly quick reduction of condition. So, by getting a couple of your units to touch the enemy, thereby causing melee, thereby draining the enemy's condition, you can help create the fertile ground where surrender becomes much more likely. You just must prevent the enemy from having an escape route.

[Imrahil Alqua]

At Gettysburg, when I took Little Round Top, there was still a full-strength Union infantry brigade at Devil's Den. They were quickly surrounded on all sides, and surrendered -get this-
With over 1,200 soldiers still remaining, and their brigade commander alive.

I have absolutely NO idea what caused it, but I sure as heck hope I can find away to do it again xD

[Solar Maximus]

Wow ! That's the biggest I've heard of. And with the largest ai units at approximately 2,950, that's still surrendering at 41% troop strength. Yeah I'd like to see what went on there. No doubt we'd all like to know how to do that "on demand". Thanks for sharing that info.

So, it's kind of like what I was saying in my original post reply...nobody really knows exactly what the true requirements are, although in this case the poster confirmed they were completely surrounded with no escape route, which is one of the "common denominators".

[David_M]

Originally posted by Ruffio:

Originally posted by Liberty or Death:

Good to know! But how do I know what I've captured? Just by remembering what I had earlier and noting the difference?

You see that under your after battle report, under the goods tab.

Aha! Not sure how I've missed it these past 26 hrs of gameplay...

[David_M]

Originally posted by Ballista:

Capturing:

To be honest, nobody knows for certain the true requirements causing a capture to happen. Like, as if there were some formula. Not even the most experienced and advanced players know for a certainty. However, there are several common denominators that always seem to be present when the surrender happens. In general the items listed below will be present in combination, and not be just a single item...

Thank you for the detailed and informative response!! This is very helpful to know, and even if we don't know the exact particulars, it is useful to know the broad parameters.

[BigJKU316]

I have routinely gotten units with 1,000 or more soldiers to surrender. The key to me seems to be to isolate enemy formations geographically from one another and in particular their commanders If I herd them into a big pile it's much more difficult to get them to surrender early than if I execute what more or less amount to infiltration tactics. Once they break I want to create several smaller pockets rather than a big bag of units. Kill the corps commanders if they are mulling around in there.

[Panam]

I don't like the fact that units which surrender seem to keep all their weapons.

The first order of business would be to disarm every captured soldier once they become prisoners.

In a battle I played, I captured an enemy infantry brigade, and immediately ordered it marched to the rear.

A functional enemy brigade bee lined for it and "touched" it, whereupon the surrendered unit immediately opened fire and routed my cavalry escort.

I've got a serious problem with this! Any surrendered unit should be disarmed for the remainder of the battle.

[Solar Maximus]

Originally posted by BigJKU316:

I have routinely gotten units with 1,000 or more soldiers to surrender. The key to me seems to be to isolate enemy formations geographically from one another and in particular their commanders If I herd them into a big pile it's much more difficult to get them to surrender early than if I execute what more or less amount to infiltration tactics. Once they break I want to create several smaller pockets rather than a big bag of units. Kill the corps commanders if they are mulling around in there.

Yes, these are all good points. Isolating enemy brigades from the general group is something I'll try to create more of. Create some distance, maybe just chase them away from the main group when they are routed (if possible), and wait for more isolation before performing the tight encirclement. Good points BigJKU316.

Sometimes I wonder if the difficulty leven has an effect on surrendering. I play on MG, and the ai does a pretty decent job of brigade teamwork, and not often are they easily isolated, except towards the end of battles, and more often in the minor battles. I have noticed that sometimes when I manage to get 2-3 brigades surrounded they seem able to resist surrender much better, for much longer.

tacitus27 makes a very good point also, in that surrendered brigades that then become liberated by rights should be in a disarmed state. Perhaps then the only way for them to regain weapons would be to enter the "influence circle" of a friendly supply wagon or supply depot.