Shiloh day 2 issues

[Current Games Suck]

Day 1 was a huge victory for me playing as the union. I didn't give them an inch. I held every victory point. My armies were shot up bad but so were they and my out of ammo / supply troops held the line.

For some unknown reason the game insists on moving to day 2 even though I had completely stopped the confederate advance. Not only does the game move to day 2, but it moves ALL of my troops to pittsburgh landing and hands over every victory point except the landing to the CSA.

WTH??? So now my troops who are battered and beat up have to go on the offensive and recalim at least one victory point or its a draw? This makes NO sense at all. If you completely wreck the CSA advance, if you insist on going to day two you should at least leave the battle map the same as it was.

Can you please look into it.

[Durruti]

Yes, from my "I Protest" Topic, How does one get through Shiloh from either North, or South?

Even with apparent control of the Landing, I, as the South, am asked to seize the Landing - one more time - and from a much superior force of fortressed defenders. ??????????????

Might the developers check on this battle just one more time - for us mortals?

[SickDog]

shilo is a little annoying but ive never had ant troubles with it, on my last play through the other day i won on BG level and lost just over 9k troops but i killed over 29k of the union troops

[Durruti]

Originally posted by SickDog:

shilo is a little annoying but ive never had ant troubles with it, on my last play through the other day i won on BG level and lost just over 9k troops but i killed over 29k of the union troops

Sir who walks on water, can you give me a couple of helpful hints on how you accomplish your winning feats?

Much obliged.

[Ruffio]

Just started this. idk how to make it possible, Im supposed to hold the church and the hornest nest. Both right and left is heavy engaged, and fall back would be utter murder on my units get gunned down from the rear. I can possible sacrifice a few brigades to stay while rest fall back, but that would cripple me even more. does the AI even send reinforcement on this one? (playing as union)

[Malkor2]

As the Union you are not supposed to hold your starting positions. You are supposed to hold out until you get the message that tells you to retreat to the Hornet's Nest. And yes, there is a message that says that if you manage to hold Shiloh Church you have it much easier to reach the Hornet's Nest before the Confederates but that doesn't mean you have to hold Shiloh Church until the end of the battle. Just long enough to pull back your troops to the Hornet's Nest and then you have to pull back your troops at Shiloh Church too. And then of course comes the message to fall back to Pittsburg Landing and to hold that position at all costs.

That is what you're supposed to do playing Shiloh as the Union. However, if you decide to defend Pittsburg Landing by holding your starting positions that is your own tactical choice. But it will not change the fact that you start the counterattack from Pittsburg Landing. Does it suck? For some people definitely. For other people not so much. And some people might even realize that you're playing a game that let's you replay a real battle. And in the Battle of Shiloh the Union had to fall back to Pittsburg Landing, they held that position and on the second day they started their counterattack from there. Is that historically correct? Yes. Do some players like that? Apparently not so much. But if the battles weren't historically correct, would those players be happy? Probably. Would other players then start complaining the game isn't historically accurate enough? Yes.

TL, DR time: Stop complaining. You managed to do what the Union back in the day couldn't do: You held everything and never had to retreat. But that doesn't change the historical facts on which this game and the battles in it are based. You just have to deal with it.

Now to the topic of how you manage to win Shilo. You have to remember the first rule of this game: Woods...learn to love 'em and to hate 'em. Let's start with the Union:

1. The Rebels advanced is slowed down because of the woods. That gives you time to move your units into a good defensive position. I know there are these fortifications at Shiloh Church where you can put a unit in but DO NOT DO THAT. Do not use these fortifications. EVER. Instead, look at the terrain. Lots of woods. And a river. And the Rebels have to cross that river which will slow them down even further. And what is on the other side of the river? Woods. Perfect cover for your troops and a good place from which you can shoot at those filthy Rebels while they try to cross the river. Your troops will have cover, while theirs are out in the open. Easy pickings. Of course, there is also plenty of woods for the Rebels but if they wanna charge you they have to come out of the woods. Speaking of charge, the river gives you a certain amount of protection against the AI's favorite tactic: CHARGE! The river slows the charging unit down long enough for your troops to shoot the crap out of them and break the charge before it even begins. Another thing one can do is to detach Skirmishers from the Infantry, have them cross the river and form a defensive line in...wait for it....the woods. Skirmishers in the woods are a pain in the ass because you either have to charge or flank them to finish them off. Best done with Cavalry. But the AI will gladly use it's Infantry to do the same. While your detached Skirmishers won't hold the Rebels off for long on the other side, it might give you that extra time.

2. For the other part of the battle the same rule applies: Use the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ woods to your advantage as much as you can. But at Spain and Larkin Field you will have it harder to fight off a melee charge. When you see that happening press that F key and if you did it early enough your unit will fall back, the Rebels will keep on charging until they run out and then you stop your unit and let them fire. The other problem is that you will get flanked at Larkin Field. And once again: Detach Skirmishers and use them to your advantage. Oh, you detach Skirmishers by picking an Infantry unit and then pressing T. Have one or two units of Skirmishers guard your flank at Larkin Field in the woods. Of course. Those woods man, they are everywhere! Speaking of flanking: Winning a fight in the woods doesn't so much depend on manpower or firepower. It's more about flanking. Getting shot in the flanks or rear will greatly reduce a units morale, up to the point where they start to turn around and run away. It doesn't matter who is shooting them in the flank or rear, it just matters that someone does it. So use those Skirmishers to flank the Rebel Infantry, start shooting their flanks and watch them run.

3. Retreat. Now how do you do that without all your units getting shot in the back? Pull the Cannons and Supply Wagons back first and give them some time before you fall back with the Infantry. And once again, Skirmishers are helpful here. Have your Skirmishers form a defensive line behind your Infantry, use F to have your Infantry fall back before you turn them around and make a run for it. Pressing F and giving the fall back command to your Infantry means that they will move backwards, while still facing the enemy. This is cruical because it prevents your Infantry from being shot in the back when you pull them out. Once they are out of range you can move them normally to their new positions. And once again, there are so many woods there. Use them to cover your retreat. Let your units that suffered the most losses or lost their Ofiicer move far away, while the others form a defensive position behind your Skirmishers. Then you pull out the Skirmishers, behind your Infantry, where they will form a new defensive line and...you get the picture. Rinse and repeat until you reach Pittsburg Landing. And don't forget to make a little stand at the Hornet's Nest. Once you reach Pittsburg Landing the whole thing turns into a big massacre. No more flanking, just straight on shooting and lots of melee charges from the Rebels. I know i wrote earlier not to use those fortifications but the ones at Pittsburg Landing are an exception. You can actually use them or form a defensive line in the woods behind them. You will have to hold out until your reinforcements arrive and then you have to hold out a little while longer. The biggest problem at Pittsburg Landing (and also at the Hornet's Nest) are the melee charges. You have to double stack your troops...not to prevent it but to make sure your units won't run away. And by double stack i mean you put up your defensive line and right behind every unit must be another unit. Normally that's a stupid idea because the unit in front prevents the other from shooting. But not during a melee charge. When the first unit gets charged and is in melee, the unit behind it can actually shoot the enemy unit charging. During a charge every unit that can shoot at the charging unit will do so, even if they expose their flank or rear while doing so. You have to watch out for this because that can wreck a whole lot of your units. Also, keep the second unit far enough behind the first unit to prevent the second unit from being pulled into the melee fight. You can always see the firing arc and range of a unit when you select it (and i wish this firing arc would be way more visible than it is right now) so keep the second unit close so the firing arc is just a tiny bit in front of the first unit. Final piece of advice: Don't be afraid to pause the battle to get certain things done. And as far as playing Shiloh as the Rebels goes, well, it is just the same. Detach Skirmishers, flank the enemy and shoot 'em up. And use those woods. Always use the woods. Become one with the woods. Become the woods. But do not use melee charges as often as the AI does because that would be just stupid.

[Marcomies]

Shiloh is not the only battle where player's forces get constantly sent back to where they are historicaly supposed to be. In case of Shiloh the player's forces also not getting their ammo replenished adds an extra layer of annoying. In battle of Chancellorsville I think I took the same victory points 3 times before the battle ended and on the last attack the enemy had only five half dead units left on the entire map.

I really wish a lot of the historical battles were a bit more dynamic and adapting to the ingame realities instead of trying to follow the historical flow of the battle no matter what. As a result also the narrative of the battles is often hilariously inaccurate.

[bmorgan077]

Originally posted by Creepy Ass Cracka:

Day 1 was a huge victory for me playing as the union. I didn't give them an inch. I held every victory point. My armies were shot up bad but so were they and my out of ammo / supply troops held the line.

For some unknown reason the game insists on moving to day 2 even though I had completely stopped the confederate advance. Not only does the game move to day 2, but it moves ALL of my troops to pittsburgh landing and hands over every victory point except the landing to the CSA.

WTH??? So now my troops who are battered and beat up have to go on the offensive and recalim at least one victory point or its a draw? This makes NO sense at all. If you completely wreck the CSA advance, if you insist on going to day two you should at least leave the battle map the same as it was.

Can you please look into it.

This is where I rage quit, Overwelming victory on day 1, still holding front line and advancing.
both confed groups destroyed and what few units there are are running away. My cav in their backfield. Day 2 starts and I have given up miles and retreated to Pittsburg Landing, and their army has been reincarnated and resupplied. Maybe there should not be a 2nd day if the Union still holds the starting front line. Confes run, battle over, union vic. move on to next btl.

3 times on day 1 a routed unit went through my lines, reformed in my rear and 2 (inf) attacked from the rear., and 1 (cav) reformed and ran (fast) all around with my cav units trudging behind.

its a good game but it need to be more addapitive to changing outcomes

[bmorgan077]

"TL, DR time: Stop complaining. You managed to do what the Union back in the day couldn't do: You held everything and never had to retreat. But that doesn't change the historical facts on which this game and the battles in it are based. You just have to deal with it."

But it does change the history, thats why we play. if we have to follow history with no changes then it's not a game it's a doucmentery. If the Union had won big on day 1 of shiloh then there would have been no day 2. Forcing me down one path with no chance for change limits my replayablity and one of my reasons for playing in the first place.

[BigJKU316]

You can win Shilo day 1 as the Union. You just have to be very aggressive.

[Ruffio]

Well, I only followed what the game told me to do, Hold "x" victory points until timer. But that just seems like put you deeper and deeper in trouble though.

I already got 4 units of skimrish behind the enemy lines, wrecking havoc on their gun batteries. and captured a supply wagon.

[emcdunna]

definitely dont assume that the trench positions are the best positions to be in. Best case scenario you have several units in woods overlooking a river, firing down into the advancing, exhausted enemy who has negative cover and has their damage cut down to 50%. Do that instead of fighting in crummy fortifications against enemies who advanced into the woods.

[emcdunna]

Also, dont always listen to the messages, VERY OFTEN the game tells you to attack when you shouldnt, to fall back when you shouldnt, or even more often to hold a position when you A) dont have to, at all, to win the battle and B) will be slaughtered there because of poor cover difference (between your men and theirs) even if there is some fortifications

[Wright29]

Shiloh has always been this way. And this issue has been brought up dozens of times. Everyone adjusts to the scenario eventually. Annoying the first time for sure. Watch a video of it before playing since this game can be a bit nitpicky regarding what constitutes victory and what causes a sudden defeat.

[Ruffio]

So happy when day changed and my units got magicaly moved to the landing. wtf? I had a brigade and 2 skimrish units behind the confederate lines wrecking havoc on their supply trains and canons. day change and they get auto moved behind the fortification at the landing. Sent 2 brigades down on each side of the map and re-captured all the victory points with no hassle really. Then it was just to slug it out and flank for extra damage.

[Durruti]

Yihaa!

Finally got it. Trick was to mostly ignore teleported Union brigades in the North & hold the SW portion of the Landing. The Cross of Stars and General Longstreet is on a roll.