Ultimate General: Civil War

Ultimate General: Civil War

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sMudge Feb 12, 2019 @ 5:19pm
Worst AI
Honestly this game makes less and less sense and becomes less and less fun the more i play. For some reason no matter how hard i try my army no matter the size or strength just runs away after the first contact is made. Push forward gets shot at routs runs away. My infantry size 1500 enemy 400 some how that makes sense in this game no matter what way you paint it I out gun the enemy yet some how they always win. Second mission after the first main battle. Not even 100 yards out of the "spawn" im already being shot at by enemy cannon fire yet for some reason my artillary just cant hit or see the enemy so its really fun being sniped half way across the map by an enemy that i cant fight. Then after pushing my infantry up the enemy does the same thing in every single mission charge and rout my squad unless they are behind the wood walls they always run away. Like wtf who designs a game like that giving enemy AI this 1 hit push that regardless of your size always makes them run away. On top of that why does my infantry squad just run to the other end of the map through enemy lines and fire without any alert iv gone through many missions where iv had squads of 800 who routed in the early firefight ran the the back of the map and just stood there? Thus game seems less focused on skill and stratdgy and more RNG/ just flat out one sided maps. The first mission make the game an absolute chore to play you lose 90% of your army and youre given less then 100k to build it back up?!?! Before someone says theirs guides out there to teach you the game iv watched videos on basic tips seeing how the in game tutorial sucks ass but it turns from a video game for fun into a history class about civil war army tactics and other random info. I understand its supposed to be realistic and a strategy game but its a little insane that the only helpful guides are chapters long or 30-40 minute videos. There are missions that are just flat out there for you to lose your army no strategy will change the fact the end death toll is over 2k. Honestly a little disappointed the game seemed really fun and intresting at first but it really takes effort to click play cause i know il just end up wasting an hour on a side mission that i end losing cause some how the enemy had another batalion just waiting in the woods then they rush and charge my line and push me back no matter what
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Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
pandakraut Feb 12, 2019 @ 5:39pm 
If the videos are to long try watching them at x2 speed or manually skipping around to see the battle tactics.

If you are outnumbering the enemy and losing you are either fundamentally misunderstanding the game mechanics or need to rethink your tactics. Every battle can be crushed on the hardest difficulty with some practice.

Also please use line breaks, it makes your post much easier to read.
sMudge Feb 12, 2019 @ 5:59pm 
Originally posted by pandakraut:
If the videos are to long try watching them at x2 speed or manually skipping around to see the battle tactics.

If you are outnumbering the enemy and losing you are either fundamentally misunderstanding the game mechanics or need to rethink your tactics. Every battle can be crushed on the hardest difficulty with some practice.

Also please use line breaks, it makes your post much easier to read.
Its part that all the guides are really long but just boring and unintresting increasing the speed and skipping just means i lose info. Iv sent units of 1500 vs 400 face to face im in a tree line and they are in an open field. The fighting went on for about 5 minutes at the end they charged and routed my unit how does that make sense. Now when im in a situation that is similar to that where a small squad of skirmishers vs my squad of skirmishers i out numbered them by about 100 yet when im in the open the fight lated a whole 30 secs as soon as shots were fired they just ran away my commander was near by for the moral boast yet they just always run away.

Its insanely frustrating to have these large units move at a snails pace and watch other units just dance around me and have them again run away and hide in the woods some where. The maps seems very 2D as in theres not alot in the means of cover, tactic, flanking positions ect. The Idea of find, fire and flank isnt here its volly rush flank wait and rinse and repeat. Veteran soliders don't do anything i barely notice a difference in them, This game seemed similar so company of heros but a little bit bigger battles and unit size. However i was hoping for more logistics but the only thing i found was the side missions that weaken the enemy but i cant tell the difference with or without them and a few times iv beaten the mission and then never got the buff
[TFM]bobcat Feb 12, 2019 @ 6:02pm 
I have never had a unit rout after just one volley unless the volley hit the unit in the flank or rear. The enemy does charge a lot but you just have to know how charges work. As stupid as it may seem, in this game more units in melee = better melee regardless of the size of the units involved. As for one on one its comes down to the experience, morale, condition and melee skills of the units involved. But that doesnt matter as there is a very easy way to counter charges, just deploy skirmishers, it will stop enemy charges before they get to you because the AI will calculate that it will lose against 2 units. if they do manage to charge a unit, releasing skirmishers will give you the edge in melee. This is beside the fact that you should always try to have arty close at hand for canister and other units in position to flank fire and rout an enemy charge before it even reaches you and you can always just retreat from an enemy charge if you have to.

Also, I can't think of a single battle that gives less than 3k troops as a reward for winning so I don't see how 2k losses is all that bad, not to mention that it is absolutely possible to win battles for fewer losses. Don’t believe me? check this out:

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/909031320901129930/FFE3FD36159A42D72060046312A83F01C75D367F/

now this is a bit of a hyperbolic result I will grant you but even so, I have won many battles with fewer than 2k losses and that is beside the fact that 2k in casualties is actually pretty good for the vast majority of battles (afterall, civil war battles were hardly known for being bloodless)
sMudge Feb 12, 2019 @ 6:09pm 
Originally posted by TFMbobcat:
I have never had a unit rout after just one volley unless the volley hit the unit in the flank or rear. The enemy does charge a lot but you just have to know how charges work. As stupid as it may seem, in this game more units in melee = better melee regardless of the size of the units involved. As for one on one its comes down to the experience, morale, condition and melee skills of the units involved. But that doesnt matter as there is a very easy way to counter charges, just deploy skirmishers, it will stop enemy charges before they get to you because the AI will calculate that it will lose against 2 units. if they do manage to charge a unit, releasing skirmishers will give you the edge in melee. This is beside the fact that you should always try to have arty close at hand for canister and other units in position to flank fire and rout an enemy charge before it even reaches you and you can always just retreat from an enemy charge if you have to.

Also, I can't think of a single battle that gives less than 3k troops as a reward for winning so I don't see how 2k losses is all that bad, not to mention that it is absolutely possible to win battles for fewer losses. Don’t believe me? check this out:

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/909031320901129930/FFE3FD36159A42D72060046312A83F01C75D367F/

now this is a bit of a hyperbolic result I will grant you but even so, I have won many battles with fewer than 2k losses and that is beside the fact that 2k in casualties is actually pretty good for the vast majority of battles (afterall, civil war battles were hardly known for being bloodless)
See it would have been nice if the game gave information like that but yet theirs almost 0 through out the game atleast the parts iv the game iv played. But even following strats online for the first mission i still feel there is a forced loss in all the missions as in no matter what the AI experience or "aim" will just randomly become inhumanly accurate. For example for some missions iv started off and made my way forward to have my skirmishers engaged by an enemy i can see yet cant hit cause they are out of range but the enemy can hit me with the same guns? Plus im having artilary sniping me from well over 500 yards away beyond my cannons sight and the only sign of there location is the balls appearing out of thin air
[TFM]bobcat Feb 12, 2019 @ 6:11pm 
Originally posted by sMudge:
Originally posted by pandakraut:
If the videos are to long try watching them at x2 speed or manually skipping around to see the battle tactics.

If you are outnumbering the enemy and losing you are either fundamentally misunderstanding the game mechanics or need to rethink your tactics. Every battle can be crushed on the hardest difficulty with some practice.

Also please use line breaks, it makes your post much easier to read.
Its part that all the guides are really long but just boring and unintresting increasing the speed and skipping just means i lose info. Iv sent units of 1500 vs 400 face to face im in a tree line and they are in an open field. The fighting went on for about 5 minutes at the end they charged and routed my unit how does that make sense. Now when im in a situation that is similar to that where a small squad of skirmishers vs my squad of skirmishers i out numbered them by about 100 yet when im in the open the fight lated a whole 30 secs as soon as shots were fired they just ran away my commander was near by for the moral boast yet they just always run away.

Its insanely frustrating to have these large units move at a snails pace and watch other units just dance around me and have them again run away and hide in the woods some where. The maps seems very 2D as in theres not alot in the means of cover, tactic, flanking positions ect. The Idea of find, fire and flank isnt here its volly rush flank wait and rinse and repeat. Veteran soliders don't do anything i barely notice a difference in them, This game seemed similar so company of heros but a little bit bigger battles and unit size. However i was hoping for more logistics but the only thing i found was the side missions that weaken the enemy but i cant tell the difference with or without them and a few times iv beaten the mission and then never got the buff

do you pay attention to unit experience or equipment? smaller units with way better stats and better weapons can outgun and out melee larger but poorly equiped and low experienced units.

veteran soldiers do make a difference but the difference won't be too substantial until late 1 star - 2 star rank and their equipment will have just as gig if not more impact on the unit's quality as well as the rank of its commander.

As for cover, forests and towns are great cover and they absolutely everywhere on most maps and even if you do have to attack across the open against an enemy in cover you can always mass your troops at the decisive point and overwhelm the enemy out of that cover

Company of Heroes is nothing like this game at all and not just because they are from 2 entirely different eras of military history. Don't play this game like its Company of Heroes
pandakraut Feb 12, 2019 @ 6:15pm 
Most of the videos I have watched contain discussion as a battle is played. The battles take a certain amount of time to complete so that can only be sped up so much. When I was starting out I learned all kinds of things about the game by watching these.

Maybe try this guide: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1590910447 It has less about gameplay mechanics but provides a basic walkthrough of how to set up your army and approach the first few battles.

With the skirmishers running away, did they actually rout or just fallback? Skirmisher AI does some calculations based on your weapon range and the enemies weapon range and the skirmishers will fall back while reloading unless you tell them to hold position.

Elevation is in the game but it has fairly limited impact except for a few maps. There were a lot of complaints about elevation blocking line of sight in the previous game so it was mostly removed in this one. Cover and flanking are extremely important. Even if you are 1 on 1 in cover, try detaching skirmishers and moving them to the enemies flank for the extra morale damage.
[TFM]bobcat Feb 12, 2019 @ 6:16pm 
Originally posted by sMudge:
Originally posted by TFMbobcat:
I have never had a unit rout after just one volley unless the volley hit the unit in the flank or rear. The enemy does charge a lot but you just have to know how charges work. As stupid as it may seem, in this game more units in melee = better melee regardless of the size of the units involved. As for one on one its comes down to the experience, morale, condition and melee skills of the units involved. But that doesnt matter as there is a very easy way to counter charges, just deploy skirmishers, it will stop enemy charges before they get to you because the AI will calculate that it will lose against 2 units. if they do manage to charge a unit, releasing skirmishers will give you the edge in melee. This is beside the fact that you should always try to have arty close at hand for canister and other units in position to flank fire and rout an enemy charge before it even reaches you and you can always just retreat from an enemy charge if you have to.

Also, I can't think of a single battle that gives less than 3k troops as a reward for winning so I don't see how 2k losses is all that bad, not to mention that it is absolutely possible to win battles for fewer losses. Don’t believe me? check this out:

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/909031320901129930/FFE3FD36159A42D72060046312A83F01C75D367F/

now this is a bit of a hyperbolic result I will grant you but even so, I have won many battles with fewer than 2k losses and that is beside the fact that 2k in casualties is actually pretty good for the vast majority of battles (afterall, civil war battles were hardly known for being bloodless)
See it would have been nice if the game gave information like that but yet theirs almost 0 through out the game atleast the parts iv the game iv played. But even following strats online for the first mission i still feel there is a forced loss in all the missions as in no matter what the AI experience or "aim" will just randomly become inhumanly accurate. For example for some missions iv started off and made my way forward to have my skirmishers engaged by an enemy i can see yet cant hit cause they are out of range but the enemy can hit me with the same guns? Plus im having artilary sniping me from well over 500 yards away beyond my cannons sight and the only sign of there location is the balls appearing out of thin air

while the maps may seem 2d, elevation does matter, to say nothing of spotting positions. there will be icons on a a map that will mark certain points on the map as spotting position that will give you a great view of the surrounding area, though they tend to be on the rare side. this is to say nothing of the fact that units in cover will be far harder to see than units in the open, or that some units have perks for vastly increased stealth or the fact that artillery can 'see' your units by way of friendly units that have an actual line of sight on you
pandakraut Feb 12, 2019 @ 6:19pm 
Originally posted by sMudge:
Originally posted by TFMbobcat:
I have never had a unit rout after just one volley unless the volley hit the unit in the flank or rear. The enemy does charge a lot but you just have to know how charges work. As stupid as it may seem, in this game more units in melee = better melee regardless of the size of the units involved. As for one on one its comes down to the experience, morale, condition and melee skills of the units involved. But that doesnt matter as there is a very easy way to counter charges, just deploy skirmishers, it will stop enemy charges before they get to you because the AI will calculate that it will lose against 2 units. if they do manage to charge a unit, releasing skirmishers will give you the edge in melee. This is beside the fact that you should always try to have arty close at hand for canister and other units in position to flank fire and rout an enemy charge before it even reaches you and you can always just retreat from an enemy charge if you have to.

Also, I can't think of a single battle that gives less than 3k troops as a reward for winning so I don't see how 2k losses is all that bad, not to mention that it is absolutely possible to win battles for fewer losses. Don’t believe me? check this out:

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/909031320901129930/FFE3FD36159A42D72060046312A83F01C75D367F/

now this is a bit of a hyperbolic result I will grant you but even so, I have won many battles with fewer than 2k losses and that is beside the fact that 2k in casualties is actually pretty good for the vast majority of battles (afterall, civil war battles were hardly known for being bloodless)
See it would have been nice if the game gave information like that but yet theirs almost 0 through out the game atleast the parts iv the game iv played. But even following strats online for the first mission i still feel there is a forced loss in all the missions as in no matter what the AI experience or "aim" will just randomly become inhumanly accurate. For example for some missions iv started off and made my way forward to have my skirmishers engaged by an enemy i can see yet cant hit cause they are out of range but the enemy can hit me with the same guns? Plus im having artilary sniping me from well over 500 yards away beyond my cannons sight and the only sign of there location is the balls appearing out of thin air

You really need to be detaching skirmishers to scout. If a unit is hidden you can't shoot it regardless of the weapon ranges. Same for artillery. You can turn this right back around on the AI, that's nearly certainly how bobcat got his result at Rendezvous. Very nicely done that.
Rooter Feb 13, 2019 @ 12:31am 
As a newbie who has just started playing the game after a quick try when it first came out.
I stopped playing after feeling the same as you do.
I havent watched anything, or read up on game just ♥♥♥♥♥♥ around with it and ill say this and hope it helps. I mainly use infantry and artillery, up to second bull run so far playing as Union. Won every battle with oly a few reloads.
1. Pause, look at terrain, chokepoints, defense, elevation, cover etc and try and use these as much as possible.
2. Keep units together to support each other, try and keep your line as often as possible even when not in combat. Form up before moving into range.
3. When they charge you, select the units on either side of unit being charged and tell them to attack the charging unit. Same with units behind the unit being charged, if it says blocked and wont target, wait till the charging unit enters mellee then target. Allways focus targets in line duels
4. Artillery pretty much in front line if u can, with ur infantry.
5. Micro manage if u can be ♥♥♥♥♥♥, it will help. One thing i noticed, if u target a unit out of range, you unit will move much closer than it needs to get in range and doesnt shoot when it can.
6. I dont think the timer allways matters. U can still get objectives, not sure if it counts but I think it does.
Narcoleptic Printer Feb 13, 2019 @ 12:04pm 
Dude, your so hopelessly wrong. The AI for this game is actually pretty good. I haven't even made it through the whole game, but I'm having a blast.
You need to conserve your troops, and use your forces wisely so you don't lose a lot of them.
The AI will counter you though, and won't make it easy.
Of course, the AI has its problems like any other game, but for the most part, its great. Its even better than a lot of the Total War games. I can say this especially since I've played most of the games in that franchise.
This game really relies off of your own strategy and tactics. You must use your own experience from strategy and tactics to make it through the game. Looking at old tactics and strategy isn't gonna cut it. You can't rely on tutorials.
Its all on skill and experience. Figure it out yourself. Don't go by the book. Just do whatever it takes to achieve your objective.
You gotta be defensive when they go offensive. You gotta be offensive when they're defensive. You gotta know when to retreat, and when to hold your ground. You need to take strategic positions, and hold them.
You will inevitably lose thousands of troops.
But this game is also supposed to be based on a bit of realism. You WILL lose a lot of men, you WILL NOT always have all the money and supplies you need. Troops will die from inexperience. Veterans and superior weapons will get you further.
Do not just hopelessly throw your men at them like meat-shields. Flank them, push them. Hold your ground. Yes, sometimes its frustrating when they retreat without orders true. But that's also fairly realistic. In this time period, morale can tank at the slightest micro-event in the course of battle.
Also, these are not squads. These are brigades.
It goes squad, platoon, company, battalion, brigade/regiment, division, corps, then field army.
No matter the missions, strategy is crucial. It is not "pointless". In fact, as it goes on, strategy and tactics become more crucial if anything. Better weapons, experienced troops, troop numbers, brigade speed, exhaustion, scouts, and harassment units are all things you'll need in battle.
Guard your artillery, use scouts to find hidden units or for flanking, use cannons wisely, only give ammo to units that are low, and use cavalry for harassment or for breaking through formations.
sMudge Feb 13, 2019 @ 12:54pm 
Originally posted by Slightly Autistic:
Dude, your so hopelessly wrong. The AI for this game is actually pretty good. I haven't even made it through the whole game, but I'm having a blast.
You need to conserve your troops, and use your forces wisely so you don't lose a lot of them.
The AI will counter you though, and won't make it easy.
Of course, the AI has its problems like any other game, but for the most part, its great. Its even better than a lot of the Total War games. I can say this especially since I've played most of the games in that franchise.
This game really relies off of your own strategy and tactics. You must use your own experience from strategy and tactics to make it through the game. Looking at old tactics and strategy isn't gonna cut it. You can't rely on tutorials.
Its all on skill and experience. Figure it out yourself. Don't go by the book. Just do whatever it takes to achieve your objective.
You gotta be defensive when they go offensive. You gotta be offensive when they're defensive. You gotta know when to retreat, and when to hold your ground. You need to take strategic positions, and hold them.
You will inevitably lose thousands of troops.
But this game is also supposed to be based on a bit of realism. You WILL lose a lot of men, you WILL NOT always have all the money and supplies you need. Troops will die from inexperience. Veterans and superior weapons will get you further.
Do not just hopelessly throw your men at them like meat-shields. Flank them, push them. Hold your ground. Yes, sometimes its frustrating when they retreat without orders true. But that's also fairly realistic. In this time period, morale can tank at the slightest micro-event in the course of battle.
Also, these are not squads. These are brigades.
It goes squad, platoon, company, battalion, brigade/regiment, division, corps, then field army.
No matter the missions, strategy is crucial. It is not "pointless". In fact, as it goes on, strategy and tactics become more crucial if anything. Better weapons, experienced troops, troop numbers, brigade speed, exhaustion, scouts, and harassment units are all things you'll need in battle.
Guard your artillery, use scouts to find hidden units or for flanking, use cannons wisely, only give ammo to units that are low, and use cavalry for harassment or for breaking through formations.
First off its you're not your but besides that you have some conflicting statements. So first off my point was not enemy AI i was saying the AI you control just refuses to listen and runs away constantly. I agree enemy AI is really good but has some broke aspects that make it very frustrating. You say "This game really relies off of your own strategy and tactics. You must use your own experience from strategy and tactics to make it through the game. Looking at old tactics and strategy isn't gonna cut it. You can't rely on tutorials" Which makes no sense i should rely on my own experience and not the tutorial but the whole point of a tutorial is to teach new players so how can i rely on my experience when i don't have any in the game thus the point of a tutorial. Plus i never served in the civil war so i cant rely on my experience seeing how i was in it to learn. As well as you said that i cant go back and look at the strategy that commanders used at the time so where the hell are you supposed to learn real tactics modern methods wont work here seeing how the 155 mm howitzer is not in the game. Pretty basic knowledge to know that when the enemy attacks hold your ground so way to go there Gen Patton. A summary of what you said is use your own strategy for something i don't have experience in, don't rush and that these are brigades not squads.
pandakraut Feb 13, 2019 @ 1:03pm 
Just in case you are, don't use the division AI controls. They will get your units killed. If you aren't using them, player units basically have no AI. They go where you tell them to and shoot at things in their way. If you expose them to fire they will rout.

A lot of morale regeneration comes from dealing damage, if a unit is taking fire and not returning it then it will rout very quickly.

The closest thing the game has to a tutorial is the online manual. Otherwise, experiment until you find something that works.
sMudge Feb 13, 2019 @ 1:16pm 
Originally posted by pandakraut:
Just in case you are, don't use the division AI controls. They will get your units killed. If you aren't using them, player units basically have no AI. They go where you tell them to and shoot at things in their way. If you expose them to fire they will rout.

A lot of morale regeneration comes from dealing damage, if a unit is taking fire and not returning it then it will rout very quickly.

The closest thing the game has to a tutorial is the online manual. Otherwise, experiment until you find something that works.
I suppose that makes sense but wtf an online manual for what a 20 dollar game they couldnt put in the effort to make just basic tutorial?
CivWar64 Feb 13, 2019 @ 3:02pm 
Originally posted by sMudge:
Originally posted by pandakraut:
Just in case you are, don't use the division AI controls. They will get your units killed. If you aren't using them, player units basically have no AI. They go where you tell them to and shoot at things in their way. If you expose them to fire they will rout.

A lot of morale regeneration comes from dealing damage, if a unit is taking fire and not returning it then it will rout very quickly.

The closest thing the game has to a tutorial is the online manual. Otherwise, experiment until you find something that works.
I suppose that makes sense but wtf an online manual for what a 20 dollar game they couldnt put in the effort to make just basic tutorial?
I understand your frustration. That's why I created my Newbie guide since I was totally bewildered starting the game with no tutorial (the developers subsequently pinned it at the top of discussions, since I guess they realized their shortcoming, and I'll put a link to it below). Later I did my step-by-step Guide as additional help (linked above by Pandakraut).
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1274743463
EliteGunm4n Feb 24, 2019 @ 11:19pm 
Perhaps some people have already made these points but here are a few tips.

1) Don't rush - These are not fast firefights. It is unlikely you will break, capture, or eliminate an enemy unit particularly quickly. So don't try to rush an offense to break a weakened enemy, it can get many of your soldiers killed.

2) Local superiority - Seems obvious but try to have even numbers or better in as many engagements as possible. This may require you to force one group to fight a losing battle in order to clean up other flanks and then reinforce.

3) Use the terrain - Be aware of what you want to accomplish at a specific location. If it's a river bounded by trees cover the fording locations, it'll cause huge casualties. Open field bounded by trees, good place to hold a superior enemy force in an open area. Full forest, be prepared for a bloody CQ fight or a long slow firing match.

4) Use your units optimally - skirmishers and cavalry can't be used like your main line infantry. Sniper skirmishers are great to get on the far edges of a fight and fire safely into the edge of a line. They'll cause constant routs giving your line time to breath but watch for enemy cav or charges, they don't last long in melee (I'm still experimenting with close range skirmishers). Melee cav can assist charging weakened units but I prefer to use them to hunt enemy artillery and ammo. Rifle cav are good support for line infantry. Watch when the enemy fires, run your cav in for 1 safe shot (or 2 risky shots) and retreat back to wait for another opening.

5) Choose your battles - Particularly on offense, don't push a defended position (like a river crossing) while an exposed flank can be crushed. This can allow you to bring more reinforcements for a surround or to force the enemy to try to withdraw and allow you to fight on a more even footing.

Those are some general tips for fighting the actual battles.

To address your problem with enemy charges, I've found that most charging units (of equal size) will cause the defender to rout. If I expect charges I try to have 1 or 2 units in reserve to fill the opening until the unit reforms and also have available units in the area fire into the melee. Units engaged in melee take huge losses from volleys and will often rout after a single volley.

Good luck.
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Date Posted: Feb 12, 2019 @ 5:19pm
Posts: 15