Upgrading Rifles

[Rowdy Rob]

Ive just started playing this game and would like some advice as to what rifles to upgrade to.

Currently playing as Union I upgraded a regiment from Springfields to Lorenz which supposedly have almost 100yds extra range. In battle however, my regiment doesn't seem to stand off the enemy by that ammount and fire, they still get as close as they did when using the Springfields.

Would like some advice for Union and Confederate upgrades on which rifles to go for after the starter Springfields.

[Operation Iraqi Freikorps]

Your men should be firing from a slightly longer range, or at least where the enemy can't shoot back as the enemy has shorter range. Mississippi rifles, the Lorenz, and the slightly improved variants are good weapons. As the campaign progresses, try to arm your men with any weapon with an 1850s model number, and the 1860s models if you can, although that gets pricey. However, pricey rifles are worse at melee, so if you charge a lot, consider older weapons for your charging brigades. I see subtle increases in kills when I upgrade a brigade up two or three weapons, but Springfield 1842s to Harper's ferry rifles will show in the kills. Tyler Texas rifles can be used, but you must buy them up from the start as Confederate, or capture enough as Union. Given the game mechanics, I had more Tyler Texas rifles in my Union campaign then my confederate one.
Cannons are a different matter, but a guide exists for them, and never go above 12 cannons or the amount of kills will be worse.
Dedicated skirmishers shine with pricey sniper rifles.

[Blastom]

Probably your riflemen was facing rebels with rifles as well. A percentage of rebels will use the latest-tech weapon as well. Also the soldiers in fortification can shoot a little bit longer than normal.

The range difference of musket and rifle is very significant and very exploitable. Think the light infantry kiting in NTW and the soldiers can reload while fallbacking in this game.

Well, the range indicator is not quite accurate, the soldiers can shoot a little bit longer than it shows in most of the situations. And if you order a brigade to attack a target outside its range, the soldiers may over walk and fall into musket range as well.

The best way to exploit the range superiority for me is moving the soldiers towards the enemy, stopping them when I feel they're in range and then clicking the enemy to attack. And don't forget to click fallback asap after the volley.

[Aluminum Elite Master]

My thoughts:

In the early game, the Lorenz or Enfield is the best weapon available for infantry... sure, you might pick up some early Fayetteville's from spending reputation, but you will never equip more than one unit with them until almost the end-game. So, Lorenz is great, and Enfield is also good. (Side note: the Lorenz is one of the best all-round weapons in the game IMO... for its price, that is. Good melee, good range, great accuracy... just doesn't reload so fast).

Mid-game, Harper's Ferry 1855 and/or Springfield 1855 is a great weapon to equip a handful of better units with.

By the late game, Springfield 1861 and CS Richmond are great for equipping better units with.

Overall, though, you typically still have Springfield 1842's in use all through the campaign. And the best weapon for cost and availability is probably the Harper's Ferry 1855/Springfield 1855... you can start getting them before the campaign gets all that far along, and for the cost they are a great weapon to equip small numbers with in the mid-game and large numbers in the end game. The Springfield 1861, 1863, and CS Richmond are obviously better, but you have to weigh the benefits of buying them in small-ish numbers versus buying a lot larger number of 1855's for a greater swath of your force.

But everything is situational... keep in mind that Farmer's and Re-Bored Farmer's are just as useful in melee as most far more expensive weapons, and in many cases *exceed* some pricier weapons in terms of melee. If you want a unit to be a pure-shooter, go for range/accuracy/reload... if you want some cannon fodder or cheap melee units, actually consider arming them with Farmer's.

[Aluminum Elite Master]

Originally posted by Teegardin21:

Cannons are a different matter, but a guide exists for them, and never go above 12 cannons or the amount of kills will be worse.

This isn't entirely true.

If you go over 12 cannons you start to lose on efficiency... that is, unless you pay for a better officer than just a typical captain. If you want to use a full 24-gun unit, you'll need at least Colonel or better to minimize efficiency-loss, and often it takes a 1-star general to totally eliminate that last little bit of loss.

And efficiency matters... it affects almost every other stat but range.

The quote is accurate, though, in that if you don't shell-out for the better officer, you see kills actually taper off as you get to 16-guns or higher... a result of the officer being too inexperienced to command the size of unit.

[Operation Iraqi Freikorps]

Testing done shows that cannons will perform worse above 12 guns, to the point of fewer kills. One individual in the artillerists guide forum tested a 12 gun battery next to a 24 gun battery and the 24 gun battery did worse. 16 gun brigades of perform as well as 6 gun brigades. Try a brigidier general in charge of a new battery of the same cannons. One at 12 guns and one at 24. The one with 24 will perform worse.

I personally use the Springfield m1842 for zero to one star units. Afterwards I equip a proper rifle, though keeping enough spare rifles to completely replace my rifle-ar.ed brigades if nessecary. Generally, keep muskets in the hands of new units, rifles/rifle musketa in veteran units, and repeaters/priceyist guns in elite units. 1850s model number weapons work well as a mainstay of your army.

[Aluminum Elite Master]

Originally posted by Teegardin21:

Testing done shows that cannons will perform worse above 12 guns, to the point of fewer kills. One individual in the artillerists guide forum tested a 12 gun battery next to a 24 gun battery and the 24 gun battery did worse. 16 gun brigades of perform as well as 6 gun brigades. Try a brigidier general in charge of a new battery of the same cannons. One at 12 guns and one at 24. The one with 24 will perform worse.

Wait, what?

What sense does that make? Why would anyone even bother, then, having a 24-gun unit unless expecting it to suffer casualties? That's absolutely counter-intuitive... a larger cannon company, unless it loses efficiency, shouldn't have a lower DPS. That has to be a design-flaw in the game, right? That can't be intentional.

I'm not saying you're wrong. But if this is indeed the case, that has to be some sort of uncorrected and unintentional design flaw. And it's one that I can't even begin to wrap my head around.

[Operation Iraqi Freikorps]

Look at the pinned forums post. One is the artillerists guide. The guide itself is great, and was made after the 1.04 artillery balance update. Questions about artillery can be asked there, The Soldier willing to answer with his experience from testing to make the guide. I agree that it seems like an oversight for larger battalions of cannons to do worse, but it's been that way for a while.

[Aluminum Elite Master]

This is from that guide:

"Battery Size

To make things very clear, a 12-gun battery is the optimal size of artillery brigade you want. Going higher than 12 guns in a battery will result in the battery actually performing worse - an 18-gun battery, for example, is going to get fewer kills than a 12-gun battery with everything else being constant. There is some credence adding one or two extra guns if a particular battery is going to be taking a lot of fire (also taking into consideration a damage buff that batteries get with more guns), but any more and effectiveness drops too much. Keep batteries at 12 guns."



And that actually doesn't seem to say, at all, that a larger battery is worse, per-se, but it says exactly what I said before:

a larger battery will be worse only if you don't add-in a better officer to off-set the efficiency hit.




Now, you also said *testing* shows 12-guns is best... if that is true, the guide needs to be re-worded, because as it is worded now, it actually is saying that larger batteries get a damage buff and will see effectiveness (the author of the guide meant efficiency, obviously) drop too much, but that can be off-set by giving each one a high-level officer.



All I'm saying, here, is that it still isn't clear whatsoever.

I'm just going to test it myself when I get a chance and see what happens. Because as the guide is worded, it seems like the author of the guide is neglecting to add that a 24-gun battery assigned a one-star general or higher will have the efficiency hit removed entirely, while actually admitting that a larger battery gets a damage buff.

[NoobyNooberson]

Curious to see what you learn

[CrashToDesktop]

@Aluminum Elite Master
Battery sizes over 12 guns will perform worse no matter what rank of officer is leading it. I tested this about a dozen times over multiple patches using gun crews with the same exact experience (down to the stats and perks) with officers of sufficient rank to lead them without imparting an Efficiency nerf as well as taking into consideration target choice (making sure there wasn't delays in kills because a larger battery took longer to rotate) and basing results on both per-volley kills and overall kills.

Trust me, I know what I'm talking about - I didn't write out a gigantic guide without having plenty of research and experience in these topics beforehand, been doing this since before the game officially launched. I have no idea why the devs designed it like that, but that's how it is.

@OP
The range stat for Infantry firearms means they'll do better at longer ranges. For gameplay purposes, Infantry brigades engage at the same range (around 300) regardless of what weapons they use.

The Lorenz is a fairly good rifle, especially early on. However, move onto the M1855s and higher when you can however, the rate of fire on the Lorenz limits it's power too much.

[mhenry_101381]

@robsreviews They are Brigades, not regiments. As for the rifles, Lorenz, Enfields or Mississippi Rifles are good weapons to upgrade from Springfield 1842s. I usually look for the ones with the highest stock so I can outfit more men. Later Springfield or Harper's Ferry 1855s will be more suited for the later campaign. On higher difficulties, the 1861 model and a few others will become more widely available.

[Rowdy Rob]

Thanks for all the informative replies..much appreciated.