Suggestion on Fredrickburg Victory/Draw Conditions

[Half life Expert]

Just got to the end of my Union campaign (as far as the game goes for now). After the bloodbaths of Gaines Mill and Malvern Hill, I took quite a bit of time off to recover, I just needed a break after those two stressful fights. So I came back, and actually managed to win 2nd Manassas and a major victory at Antietam (as opposed to the draw that really happened). I won both of the battles that preceded Fredricksburg and got all three of that battles possible bonuses.

Got across the river and took the town without much trouble, and actually destroyed Jackson's corps and captured Prospect Hill. Then i was given the task of taking the Heights opposite the town. I tried and tried but i just couldnt get any farther after i was able to breach the first line three times near the southern most supply depot. I didnt have the weight of men or cannon to make another attempt, so i pulled my survivors of my V Corps back to the town and ran the clock out while taking artillery fire.

I got a defeat, which i understand because i looked closely at the victory conditions. But I think that since i captured prospect hill and practically knocked Jackson's corps out of the fight for weeks or longer, i think should have gotten a Draw. My reputation was at 94 so i know i wont get fired, but still since i acheived total sucess in the southern part of the battle, unlike in history, i should have been creditied with a draw.

Thoughts?

[Koro]

To get a draw you need 1 point and not lose more than 50% of your army.
Victory conditions can be found in the top right corner.
Don't forget it's always up to your assessment as a general if you want to keep pressing the attack or not.

[EagleShark]

both viable points.

[Guernica]

Marye's Heights was really the ojective behind attacking Fredericksburg, for the Union. The southerly attack on Prospect Hill was meant to be more of a flanking maneuver, but the Union lost the element of surprise and Lee had Jackson set up shop around the Hill.

Losing the element of surprise seems to be a big reason Burnside threw troops away attacking Marye's Heights. He probably became tunnel visioned and saw no other way around the situation (other than withdrawing and a month of planning, troop maneuvering and progress halted).

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Fredericksburg-Overview.png

That being said, I've now played as the Union twice on that map, and both times I used the same strategy with great success.

Spoiler Alert!!!

When assaulting Marye's Heights, learn from Burnside's mistake. Frontal assaults against massive amounts of cannons and well-entrenched infantry do not turn out well... I send two divisions of infantry to the very south, just north of the stream that is called Hazel Run in real life. It's going to take both of those divisions, and they'll probably almost all break and run. The key is to keep up the assaults, one after another and in overwhelming numbers on that singular spot. Once you break that brigade, you've got a foothold. Don't let your momentum die here. You'll need to keep pushing brigades west to envelop the CSA defenses. After this, the CSA line should wrap up like Christmas present for you.

Also, in the final phase, having a ton of troops pushing along that creek and up towards Marye's Heights from the south allows you a very strategic position when attacking Telegraph Road.I usually just take 1/2 - 2/3s of my flanking force, wheel them around and attack the Telegraph Road defensive line from behind.

[Detail]

Marye Heights was a bloodbath for the North, playing against them as the South if the game timer would have run till the end I would have wiped out the whole Federal Army. It cut off wioth about :47 left, I had them enveloped. If you play with Koro's guidance and build your corps properly there isn't any way the Union push's you off the heights.


Again there was no attack at the end against Telegraph Road, but I flanked them on my right to make sure that they didn't try to go over that way.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=825575703

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=825576130

[RobWheat61]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=823074753

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=823075054

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=823075388

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=823075806


Yes, Fredericksburg is too easy for the CSA (normal; okay, every battle on normal is proabably too easy). I admit, that it should be a bit easy for the CSA, because they had excellent defensive positions and it was very likely the only battle of the Army of Northern where it could keep a reserve behind the battle line. But that doesn't mean, you should be able to flank or destroy the Union lines neither on the right or left in game. Historically Jackson contemplated to attack with his corps when he repulsed the Union attacks, but the wide open space and the massive amount of artillery the Union had deployed on both sides of the river just would have made it pretty much suicide. This should somehow be reflected in the scenario.

As I played the battle, the Union didn't attack in the center either. Maybe three brigades appeared there which moved immediately to the town to help their comrades. The main problem here and generally is, that the AI has just not enough troops to deploy anymore because scaling doesn't seem to work properly anymore after approx. one month of complaining about scaling and repeated statements that you're always or very often massively outnumbered against the AI, which isn't true now and wasn't true before the latest update. But for some people, I guess, things become true or a fact, if they only repeat it often enough. The dynamic effects, which are a good thing in itself, make this situation even worse right now, It's the same with all these threads "battle xyz is impossible blablabla...".

Sorry for the rant at the end of the post, but I needed just to vent a little my frustration because I think the discussion about the game goes in the wrong direction in many ways right now.

[GeneralPITA]

Speaking of dynamic effects, I don't want the enemy to get dumbed down weaponry, that only means I capture junk weapons!

Also...the scaling is fine, but the weapon type +1 means that since I defended fredericksburgh with an M1855 in every single confederate infantryman's hand, the enemy had a ton of enfields, and I ended up capturing 13,000 of them. What's next? I capture 10,000 M1861s? It's game over if that happens.

[Half life Expert]

I understand the victory conditions, and undertood them at the time, it's just a suggestion that I have that if the Union takes Prospect but fails at Mayre and Telegraph, or vice versa, it should be considered a draw.

[Detail]

Originally posted by Half life Expert:

I understand the victory conditions, and undertood them at the time, it's just a suggestion that I have that if the Union takes Prospect but fails at Mayre and Telegraph, or vice versa, it should be considered a draw.

The union taking Prospect is a hugh leap of fate also. I was significantly outnumbered but just formed a defensive line with a L coming off the end in the west and routed every attack they made. Cannon does some serious damage from those woods also. The union attacking across open ground is at a serious disadvantage in any of the segments of this battle.

[Koro]

Originally posted by Half life Expert:

I understand the victory conditions, and undertood them at the time, it's just a suggestion that I have that if the Union takes Prospect but fails at Mayre and Telegraph, or vice versa, it should be considered a draw.

It is, unless you lose more than half of your army which seems fair, no?

[Half life Expert]

i suppose, but then again one of the CSA's best Corps lost 80%+ of its men and was basically knocked out ot the war, that has to count for something!