Can't bring enough forces

[Low Elo]

This is really annoying, especially during the CSA campaign. The game forcible limits how many units you can field in most battles. It doesn't matter if you have a big or a smaller army, usually you can bring less than 1 Corps. Often even less than 1 division.

The enemy will always outnumber you. In the CSA campaign the Union can even simply zerg you with melee charges on all your flanks at once and win. They'll have more units than you and quite often much bigger units too. That's not a battle, that's a slaughter. Extremely frustrating when you know you do have a bigger army in your possession but the game limits the number of brigades you can bring; thus artificially always making you weaker (much weaker) than the enemy.

Numerous battles I lost, simply having all my units zerged one by one or consecutively (despite then offering supporting fire to oneanother by 2 or 3 enemy units which are twice their size on their own. No amount of positioning or tactics can win there. I'm not even getting flanked, simply overrun.

Seems only 1 meta works kind of, which is to go for full army organisation and full politics. That way you get a lot of money and you can make your brigades bigger. Then focus on a single Division of ultra-high level infantry and artillery brigades. Don't bother starting too many new divisions and don't ever bother with a second corps. You won't get to field them anyway.

[diegrndrst73041]

I disagree with everything you said.

[Low Elo]

Originally posted by diegrndrst73041:

I disagree with everything you said.

So you also disagree that you can only send a limited number of corps' and brigades to battles? Since you're even disagreeing on factual things I don't think you and I need to discuss further.

[biggins89]

Well he may disagree with you but I do not. And not just the limit on Corps. The way your reinforcements are brought in piecemeal is another pain.

[hottomo]

It seems logical that a campaign offers various opprotunies from skirmishes (typically those where you take command of other forces) to big battles accepting many corps. Before the medium ones you can reorganize to present the best suitable 1 or 2 needed corps.
Are you at the beginning ? Big battles with 5 corps slots came late.

Concerning being outnumbered as CSA, I didn't like it either but I feel it is an adequate compromise between a bit of historical realism, a little game balance and a bit of challenge. It is in the nature of this game, not a sandbox grand strategy, more bounded (!?).

[Low Elo]

I don't mind having fewer resources. That's historical. It's just frustrating that you know you have more forces to spare but the game imposes a limit on the number of units you can send, while the scenarios also pose an x number of enemy units against you. This is always designed in such a way that the enemy's number of units are greater than the ones you have at your disposal.

Sometimes its so bad that you wonder why you would bother showing up there at all. If I could call the shots I wouldn't bother sending piecemeal forces against opponents so numerous. I'd either send an adequate force, or non at all. Especially if its not a key point to hold or a desperate measure.

The troop balance in this game makes it that there's one particular setup which is always the best one: Army Organisation and Politics. I went with training myself to more reflect the CSA stereotype of having "less resources, less men but better soldiers". Totally does not get you anywhere.

[Aurion]

I went with training myself to more reflect the CSA stereotype of having "less resources, less men but better soldiers".

Perhaps consider self-examination.

Is picking your general's stats to have the same weaknesses as are already present in the Confederates' campaign a good idea?

[noob zeus]

Originally posted by diegrndrst73041:

I disagree with everything you said.

Same. Never had an issue. The CSA was by and large at a disadvantage anyway.

[Didz]

What you say is factually correct, the game forcible limits how many units you can field in most battles, and as you say it often drip feeds your units onto the map to simulate the fact that they are marching to join the fight.

However, we are all in the same boat and most of us are still managing to win. So, I think you need to ask yourself why you are having so much trouble coping with the way the game works.

There is for example an element of timing to most of these battles. Simply rushing whatever you have available into a fight against the odds is rarely a good idea.

For example: I've just completed Gaines Mill, which, as you say, limits your initial army to part of one Corps, and leaves you to fight for a hour with only those forces before your second corps turns up, and even then it arrives in dribs and drabs exhausted from the march to reach you.

So, sure you could try to rush the objectives with the units form your first Corps that you have available, but the enemy are dug in and as strong as you are, so why would that ever be a good idea. In fact, the first hour of this battle is basically an exercise in restraint. You more you men up and you wait for the reinforcements. The AI was even stupid enough to try and counter attack to drive off my skirnishers which I was using to annoy them.

Even when the second Corps turns up it takes time to get into position and to rest after its march, it close to two hours into the battle before you are really ready to start a serious attack, and by then the AI has started getting reinforcement too.

So, it becomes a timing issue to decide when you can begin to commit your forces to a major assault, too ealry and you risk getting shot to peices by superior enemy numbers, leave it too late and the enemy reinforcements arrive and negate your advantage.

Thats part of the skill involved in playing this game, its not like Totalwar where everything turns up at once, and if you have a bigger army you get an instant advantage..

[leon james]

maybe u should read 'legendary csa campaign' in the discussions instead of making a cry baby rant page. plenty of resources on how to play lul

[Low Elo]

Originally posted by Didz:

What you say is factually correct, the game forcible limits how many units you can field in most battles, and as you say it often drip feeds your units onto the map to simulate the fact that they are marching to join the fight.

However, we are all in the same boat and most of us are still managing to win. So, I think you need to ask yourself why you are having so much trouble coping with the way the game works.

There is for example an element of timing to most of these battles. Simply rushing whatever you have available into a fight against the odds is rarely a good idea.

For example: I've just completed Gaines Mill, which, as you say, limits your initial army to part of one Corps, and leaves you to fight for a hour with only those forces before your second corps turns up, and even then it arrives in dribs and drabs exhausted from the march to reach you.

So, sure you could try to rush the objectives with the units form your first Corps that you have available, but the enemy are dug in and as strong as you are, so why would that ever be a good idea. In fact, the first hour of this battle is basically an exercise in restraint. You more you men up and you wait for the reinforcements. The AI was even stupid enough to try and counter attack to drive off my skirnishers which I was using to annoy them.

Even when the second Corps turns up it takes time to get into position and to rest after its march, it close to two hours into the battle before you are really ready to start a serious attack, and by then the AI has started getting reinforcement too.

So, it becomes a timing issue to decide when you can begin to commit your forces to a major assault, too ealry and you risk getting shot to peices by superior enemy numbers, leave it too late and the enemy reinforcements arrive and negate your advantage.

Thats part of the skill involved in playing this game, its not like Totalwar where everything turns up at once, and if you have a bigger army you get an instant advantage..

I was actualling thinking of some of the defensive scenarios as well. Where you set up, don't get any other reinforcements and are supposed to hold until the timer runs out. Then the union comes and zergs your entire frontline all at once, e.g. you don't have any units left the move around with without it crippling a part of your line. The union units are twice as big as mine and they have more of them (because I can't deploy my entire army and the rest will never show up anyway).

[Kay of Sauvage]

Just pay attention to maximizing all types of bonuses you can.

Terrain is one. Use cover. Skirmishers get better cover bonuses, so let them absorb lots of damage for you, especially detached skirmishers that are less valuable than dedicated skirmisher units. Similarly, engage the enemy where they won't have cover.

Flanking bonuses are another. Just having all your units in a nice line shooting should not be enough to win or else the game would be super boringly easy. Get units to the flanks, especially the manueverable skirmishers, to get more damaging effects. It may also stretch the enemy thinner as they try to counter your flanking attack, so your main line will face less pressure.

Morale and condition both affect unit effectiveness. Keep units fresh and rested. Shooting the flank of enemy units not only kills more, but greatly reduces morale and effectiveness. Routing them or having them run around to respond to you reduces their condition.

[sakowski.finanse]

One little problem with what you are saying. If your wish would be granted the game would be childsplay and pose no challange. I propobly would not have played it, becouse it would be too easy.

[Low Elo]

Yea, I'm not talking about the enemy simply outnumbering me. I'm fine with that and I expect it when you play CSA campaign of course. That's historical. I'm only wondering why I can't deploy what I have! I have the army to fight the battle but the game limits how many I can field and whether or not I get reinforcements from the rest of my army at all.

It does so, the limiting, while putting overwhelming enemy forces on the field against me. In one scenario the briefing even blatantly tells me I have superior numbers so I should press the enemy. In the after battle report I find out the union had 2000 men more than I did. Wtf? If I could bring my true army I'd have crushed them. In other words, the game is >>artificially<< keeping your army smaller than the enemy's. That's my gripe.

If I messed up my organisation and reputation so my army was crippled then its my fault. I have no problem with losing the battle then. But if I do everything right and the game then artificially cripples me then it's where I get frustrated over a loss. It wasn't a fair test of my complete set of skills, tactical AND organisational.

[draqsko]

Originally posted by getrekt360noscope (clementine):

Yea, I'm not talking about the enemy simply outnumbering me. I'm fine with that and I expect it when you play CSA campaign of course. That's historical. I'm only wondering why I can't deploy what I have! I have the army to fight the battle but the game limits how many I can field and whether or not I get reinforcements from the rest of my army at all.

It does so, the limiting, while putting overwhelming enemy forces on the field against me. In one scenario the briefing even blatantly tells me I have superior numbers so I should press the enemy. In the after battle report I find out the union had 2000 men more than I did. Wtf? If I could bring my true army I'd have crushed them. In other words, the game is >>artificially<< keeping your army smaller than the enemy's. That's my gripe.

If I messed up my organisation and reputation so my army was crippled then its my fault. I have no problem with losing the battle then. But if I do everything right and the game then artificially cripples me then it's where I get frustrated over a loss. It wasn't a fair test of my complete set of skills, tactical AND organisational.

Lee didn't have Stuart at Gettysburg, do you see him complaining on the forums? There are other instances of commanders not having their particular divisions or even corps under their command at certain battles due to attachment to other units. The campaign scenarios simulate that you are part of a larger war effort and "your" forces are not really yours but Lincoln's or Davis' forces to be re-assigned as needed.

[Didz]

Originally posted by getrekt360noscope (clementine):

I was actualling thinking of some of the defensive scenarios as well. Where you set up, don't get any other reinforcements and are supposed to hold until the timer runs out. Then the union comes and zergs your entire frontline all at once, e.g. you don't have any units left the move around with without it crippling a part of your line. The union units are twice as big as mine and they have more of them (because I can't deploy my entire army and the rest will never show up anyway).

Is there a specific battle you are thinking of?

I recognise the tactical problem you are highlighting, as I've fought through both campaigns as far as Malvern Hill, but i wonder if the challenges get any worse than I've already experienced.

Certainly at both Gaines Mill and Malvern Hill the Union player finds himself having to play through the historical consequences of McClennan's paranoia about the strength and superioriity of the Confederate Army, and find themselves fighting desperate rear guard actions to cover the retreat of the main Union Army against a jubilant and aggressive rebel army. The justification for the player having limited numbers of men available, and the Confederates having larger numbers is that McClennan is trying in his deluded version of relaity to save as much of his army as possible, and you unfortunate command has draw the short straw of sacrificing itself for the greater good.

The trick I found with both these battles, when playing as the Union, is to be just as ruthless and uncaring as McClennan. The first thing I did at the start of both battles was to detach skirmishers from every brigade and send them forward to their deaths. (Well perhaps not quite that bad) But what I've discovered is that a carefully placed unit of skirmishers can soak up a lot of musaketry and artillery fire before it becomes ineffective, and so by screening my main defence line with carefully placed skirmishers (placed on the edges of woods, in farmsteads, or hidden in cornfields) what I do is force the AI (Confederates) to deploy their brigades and artillery and fight them before they can move forward.

This causes delay and buys me valuable time, before my main defence line even comes under fire. It also burns up huge amounts of Rebel ammunition, whilst my skirmishers use very little.

I literally just let my skirmishers suffer for the greater good, buying me time with their blood. Periodocally I check their morale and condition and if they begin to look close to the end of their tether I recall them to their brigade, and as soon as they arrive I detach and send forward a fresh company of heroes.

And I keep that cycle going for as long as the AI is prepared to let me. However, eventually the phase ends and your get some sort of warning that the enemy are about to become more aggressive. At which point the AI is scripted to start using charges and assaults to clear your lines.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1099216423
The above screenshot shows my skirmish line in action at Gaines Mill. They have just been forced out of their initial positions and are falling back to their second position where they will make yet another stand. The main defence line is off the screen to the south.

The first of those charges will be against your skirmishers, so as soon as they start coming you need to tell your skirmishers to 'Fallback' by clicking the appropriate button on their command bar. Hopefully this will avoid them getting overrun and the AI's units will simply waste their energy hitting thin air.

Keep this fight and flight tactic going, until finally your skirmishers are forced back into your main defence line. At that point I usually order them to return to their brigades as they are not much use in holding a defensive position, and their brigades will need every man they can get. However, if the AI relief the pressure on the main battle line at any point i always detach them again and follow up reoccupying my old skirmish lines and harrassing the enemy as thry try to rest and reorganise.

This is basically then a rinse and repeat tactic, using skirmishers to keep the enemy at bay amd harrss them constantly. If and when they eventually assault your main battle line, you want that event to be delayed as long as possible, and when it happens try to have fresh brigades standing behind the point of assault.

I was lucky in both my battles that my 1st Corps has a Cavalry Division and I use this to support my defence line and counter charge any Rebel assault. Likewise my I Corps has 48 heavy artillery guns and 24 light horse artillery guns. and these are placed behind my lines to blast any massed assault columns with cannister as soon as they come within range.

It basically becomes a battle of attrition, with the Rebels getting the worst of every exchange. The area in front of the farmstead in the centre of the Malvern Hill line looked like a moonscape but the end of my battle there, where my artillery had literally blasted Confederate assault columns into oblivion. Some Rebel s Brigade's losts 80% casulaties and were still trying to close with less than 300 men remaining.