Ultimate General: Civil War

Ultimate General: Civil War

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Something is not right with smaller battles.
So I have been asking myself is it worth it to do the smaller battles in preparation for the grand battles.

I am approaching Chancellorsville and decided I would fight the 3 preparation battles to get an advantage. As it stands prior to fighting the 3 battles the union army had the following stats with a 5 recon rating on my general.

112-117k Men
20-25% training
34-39% Armory

I fought and won First Franklin battle decisevly

New Union Army Stats

113-118K Men
20-25% Training
33-38% Armory.

So for a they gained ~1000 men and lost ~1% Armory.....???

Ok, so lets move on to Rio Hill! This battle actually reflects on the Chancellorsville battle when you cursor over it, you are promised a reduction of 5% enemy army size if you win! Sounds like a plan, lets go crush the yanks.

I fight the battle of Rio Hill and win. New Union army Stats:

115-120k Men
34-39% Training
33-38% armoy

WTF???? They gained roughly 2000 Men and a huge 14% bump on training. HOW? Why??? I literally just beat them down and they got stronger even when I was promised a 5% reduction to enemy army size.

Now on to the devil itself "blackwater river" I truly hate this battle because its a slobber knocker and one of the few battles I can't beat with a positive Kill to Death ratio.

I won the battle and the new union army stats:

114k-119k Men.
34-39% Training
33-38% Armoy

I literally destroyed my first corp in the phyrric victory to have them lose a net 1000 men in the upcoming battle of Chancellorsville even when promised a 5% reduction in enemy army size which would have been roughly 6000 troops.

What in the world is going on?

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Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
SickDog Jul 18, 2017 @ 9:51pm 
i have the same problem i win all the battles leading up to the major engagements and im promised in certain cases 5-15% reduction in enemy troops but find they've actually grown in number, you can't ignore the minor battles as you are depriving youreself of career points and in my opinion its how the game is supposed to be played and i know playing as csa you're supposed to be out numbered historicly but why put the promised reduction in if its never followed through on?.... winge over
Imbezile Jul 18, 2017 @ 11:45pm 
Originally posted by SickDog:
i have the same problem i win all the battles leading up to the major engagements and im promised in certain cases 5-15% reduction in enemy troops but find they've actually grown in number...

The 5-15% reduction is a separate mechanic from the MP pool. Both were implemented for the same reason (to make minor battles worthwile by affecting the AI troop numbers). The percentage effects the maximum scaling of the AI troops in case it has enough manpower to deploy the max troops set by the scaling mechanic. The percentile bonuses were the devs first attempt to make tha campaign more dynamic in nature.

I know it can be a bit disencouraging to see the 40k reinforcements but it keeps the AI army at a level it can function and present some challenge to the player. Just don´t stare at the manpower pool alone and start paying notice to the exp and weaponry. Impact on those is usually much greater than the impact on MP.
Last edited by Imbezile; Jul 19, 2017 @ 12:13am
SickDog Jul 19, 2017 @ 12:21am 
i realise the AI has to have re-enforcements and i of course expect the union to have more troops but i does stop you going for the complete destruction of the enemy because any casulties you inflict is negated in the next battle... i would like to see SOME difference in the enemys numbers even if it is for a like a few months.. no complaints about the game its the best civil war RTS game out there
Imbezile Jul 19, 2017 @ 12:52am 
Originally posted by SickDog:
i realise the AI has to have re-enforcements and i of course expect the union to have more troops but i does stop you going for the complete destruction of the enemy because any casulties you inflict is negated in the next battle... i would like to see SOME difference in the enemys numbers even if it is for a like a few months.. no complaints about the game its the best civil war RTS game out there

Dude, Have you faced over 100k armies in Antietam or F-burg? Those are the real numbers the Ai got before the MP pool. Having played the game before 0.9 the numbers have gone down really radically.

I do agree the minor battles should have a greater impact on the AI MP pool. If they´d give reinforcements only in the beginning of a campaign the difference would be more noticable and minor battles more enjoyable. The constant trickle of reinforcements instead of a flood every once in a while makes the changes more difficult to notice.
I think the problem is there is no balance. The rewards for the minor battles do not pencil out when you compare it to how much its going to cost to fix the army. You get ~85k for the minor battles. Thats barely enough to put your army back together. The rewards are not good and yet you have to do them to advance your rank.

There has to be some perk to smashing another army. For example, You smash an enemy army. Kill ~20k people, lost about 10k of your own. You recover 6k weapons between 30,000 dead... wut???? What happened to the other weapons?

Why are so few cannons recovered. You can literally kill 4-5 cannon crews and recover 7 cannons.

I would like to know if there is an intended purpose to doing the smaller battles aside from advancing generals rank? is it working as intended?

On a side note:

In Ultimate Gen Gettysburg you gave us options, to attack or defend, to rest + withdraw or push on. Would be cool to see some of those choices happen.

Please give us the option to continue the battle or withdraw when time is up. It makes no sense at all. No general is gonna say "oh darn, times up" when the enemy is breaking and is on the run but you just cant cap the final VP fast enough. Is someone really going to withdraw if you have them beat? I ***HATE*** being rushed in RTS games. Its forcing the person to play the game the way YOU want it to be played and not the way *I* want to.

SickDog Jul 19, 2017 @ 3:57am 
in answer to your question imbezile i have faced over 100k and its not the fact the enemy has those numbers its the fact nothing i do reduces those numbers, i've won all the battles in the game and started washington on BG level but the the union fielded over 110k on the second day and my poor army was reduced to about 95k but i was playing with a game that started before the update and things where a little screwed up so i had to start again..still have that game saved as i'm unable to bring myself to delete it :(... as i said i'm not moaning about anything i just think there should be a noticable reduction in there numbers as a reward for winning
J. P. Armistead Jul 19, 2017 @ 5:30am 
If you reduce the numbers the game gets easier and easier and the late game battles will be walkovers. Already, playing as the Union as BG i'm finding the battles too easy since the 0.90 patches, and i'm only at Antietam! They were certainly harder in my pre 0.90 campaigns.

In comparison to my pre 0.90 campaigns ( 1 as Union , 2 as CSA ) i am finding the battles much easier.

The minor battles are well worth fighting just for the rewards and the experience gained, but their real value lies in you getting the opportunity to hone your tactics. The real reward comes if you can minimise your own casualties, and never mind the enemies.

The game is balanced because the game is designed to present each battle as a real challenge.
If your casualty rate is too high then you are doing something wrong.
I have analysed all my battles to date and the rewards always cover my losses ( except Blackwater bridge - not worth fighting), and usually with a good profit ( i am $120K in the black as i go into Antietam, with 25K troops against the CSA's 24K.
I have also found it is better to keep your forces only just large enough to match the enemy, and build up slowly over time instead of rushing to get huge armies onto the field.


I haven't tried it but if you only fight the major battles i suspect you will not be able to win the game because you will run out of manpower and have a relatively inexperienced army vs the AI.

By the way 5 points in recon is a waste - better use those points to heal your units to maintain your experience level, or to make more money.
I find 2 points is all i need - i'm not bothered about the composition of the enemies forces.

If you are only interested in smashing the enemy and being rewarded by facing smaller and smaller armies which will give you no challenge then this isn't the game for you.
BigJKU316 Jul 19, 2017 @ 5:35am 
Originally posted by SickDog:
in answer to your question imbezile i have faced over 100k and its not the fact the enemy has those numbers its the fact nothing i do reduces those numbers, i've won all the battles in the game and started washington on BG level but the the union fielded over 110k on the second day and my poor army was reduced to about 95k but i was playing with a game that started before the update and things where a little screwed up so i had to start again..still have that game saved as i'm unable to bring myself to delete it :(... as i said i'm not moaning about anything i just think there should be a noticable reduction in there numbers as a reward for winning

The question would be how many of the enemy are you killing or capturing each battle? That makes a huge difference. Winning matters but if you want to get ahead on the manpower pool killing matters more.

Prior to the pool Cold Harbor with the Union was a mother. Last time I got there the CSA was so depleted whole stretches of the line were held either not at all or by units reduced to the brink of shattering from being so small to begin with and taking a pasting on the first few phases.

For the Union I started to notice the difference a bit at Stones River and a lot after that. Chancellorsville and Fredericksburg were comparative walkovers. Gettysburg wasn't even a challenge and I ended up on the offensive at the end of each phase.

You can make a dent and the minor battles do contribute to an overall drain of men that eventually catches up to them. You won't change much where they stand for a major battle on the pool but it helps drain men from them in future allotments.
Marcomies Jul 19, 2017 @ 6:35am 
Yeah. Made a thread about that a week or two ago. The way the events work in the game often makes it pointless or even harmful to play side mission after the first half of the game.

Small battles also apparently scale to the total size of your army so the battles become increasingly hard so even a victory is often a net loss for the player, even without the constant random post-battle enemy buff events.

It's not a problem that enemy is kept at a size that remains even somewhat challenging to the player, the problem is that curret event system actually rewards skipping side mission. A loss or even a draw is side missions is always worse than skipping it which makes absolutely no sense from game design point of view.

Enemy should get the biggest buffs right after a large battle and the following small battles should never result in net gain for the enemy no matter how bad they go. Skipping should be equal or worse than losing in terms of reputation.
SickDog Jul 19, 2017 @ 7:14am 
i win every battle by complete rout normally the enemy looses at a minimum 3-1 losses, the only battles that arnt a rout are the one that just suddenly end without an option to continue, i just replayed shilo and the enemy lost 29k to my 9k
Caramirdan Jul 19, 2017 @ 12:22pm 
Originally posted by Creepy Ass Cracka:
Why are so few cannons recovered. You can literally kill 4-5 cannon crews and recover 7 cannons.

Although this game is not a true historical simulation, realistic effects are throughout. Gun crews anticipating capture/defeat historically disabled their guns (usually by spiking) so that if the guns were captured, they couldn't be used without a lot of expensive repair. "Captured" and
"recovered" weapons in the game represent usable weapons IMO.
SickDog Jul 19, 2017 @ 9:55pm 
doesnt account for rifles ect, as far im aware nobody spiked a musket as he was shot, i killed 29,000 at shilo and recovered 3k in firearms
Gully Man Mar 21, 2020 @ 10:51am 
Originally posted by Caramirdan:
Originally posted by Creepy Ass Cracka:
Why are so few cannons recovered. You can literally kill 4-5 cannon crews and recover 7 cannons.

Although this game is not a true historical simulation, realistic effects are throughout. Gun crews anticipating capture/defeat historically disabled their guns (usually by spiking) so that if the guns were captured, they couldn't be used without a lot of expensive repair. "Captured" and
"recovered" weapons in the game represent usable weapons IMO.

Also, when an artillery unit shatters, it doesn't mean every single man is killed or every gun is destroyed or captured - there are still some men left who run away (look at the unit list after the end of the battle), and they probably drag off the remaining guns with them.

I can't answer the recovered rifle question, though - maybe it's just a play balance thing?
Originally posted by SickDog:
doesnt account for rifles ect, as far im aware nobody spiked a musket as he was shot, i killed 29,000 at shilo and recovered 3k in firearms

Back in the early days of this game, this was more true. I remember at the battle of Cross Keys, I captured something like 10k Texas Tylers, that the Union had equipped. They had to nerf the recovery rate because if you would kill 100k enemy and recover 60k rifles it could really affect the balance.
CivWar64 Mar 22, 2020 @ 3:06pm 
Re the minor battles being 'worthless', last year I was curious as to whether you could win a campaign by playing ONLY the majors right from the start. I succeeded on easy mode as the Union.

The trick was to carefully manage how you put your few career points (Army org most important first), and to use the reputation points to get weapons.

After I succeeded, @Pandakraut tried on BG mode as the CSA - he did so well that about 2/3 of the way through it was boring and he stopped (he's an expert at the game).

It was an interesting experiment.
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Date Posted: Jul 18, 2017 @ 8:43pm
Posts: 15