The Mule Shoe

[m4rt14n]

Any tips for this battle? Map seems unwinnable, without very heavy losses for Union. CSA is packed tight in rows of fortifications with 3-stars Richmonds rifles.

[Luunyrkki]

I had to play it 4 or 5 times. You'll eventually find some sweetpots to dislodge enemy from fortifications. Also arty can be a real killer(especially now since 20pdr parrots seem to be working).

[m4rt14n]

Originally posted by Luunyrkki:

I had to play it 4 or 5 times. You'll eventually find some sweetpots to dislodge enemy from fortifications. Also arty can be a real killer(especially now since 20pdr parrots seem to be working).

How much men did you lose?

[Luunyrkki]

20 or 30K, can't rememeber. I was playing as Union on easy so I had about 150k in pool.

[Beer Baron]

I attacked the very south west of the line while distracting the majority of thier brigades in the north. You have to break them fast otherwise they will shift units and it will become even more of a bloodbath. I lost about 8k men in the process, a much smaller number then at Brock road.

[m4rt14n]

Definitely not worth it with 26k losses

[76561198345797500]

I did just 4k losses here...i tried to atk the CSA from bottom left and bottom right..capture the VP from back at the last 5 minutes to secure Victory...(screenshot shared)

[m4rt14n]

Originally posted by fhs1206:

I did just 4k losses here...i tried to atk the CSA from bottom left and bottom right..capture the VP from back at the last 5 minutes to secure Victory...(screenshot shared)

It's sad that we basically have to resort to tactics like this to win the battle. Historically the bottom left and right are part of a longer fortifications that arent in the map because of the smaller map size.

[brett.a.hankinson]

I moved all my men to the Southwest, punched a hole and headed North

[Beer Baron]

Originally posted by m4rt14n:

Originally posted by fhs1206:

I did just 4k losses here...i tried to atk the CSA from bottom left and bottom right..capture the VP from back at the last 5 minutes to secure Victory...(screenshot shared)

It's sad that we basically have to resort to tactics like this to win the battle. Historically the bottom left and right are part of a longer fortifications that arent in the map because of the smaller map size.

Didn't really have the option to brute force it myself. The scaling on my difficulty had them outnumbering me by about 10k men.

[mhenry_101381]

Sounds like you guys really need to research the battles of Cold Harbor and Spotsylvania and what the Union did to win and what it cost them. The first attempt at the Mule Shoe cost the Union about 1,000 casualties, the South lost that many in prisoners. The second attempt started at 4:35am and lasted until 3am the next morning with about 4 corps involved the bloody trench fighting.

http://www.civilwar.org/battlefields/spotsylvaniacourthouse/spotsylvania-history/the-unions-bloody-miscue-at.html?referrer=https://www.google.com/

For some reason it is censored.

[SideshowCO]

Originally posted by mhenry_101381:

Sounds like you guys really need to research the battles of Cold Harbor and Spotsylvania and what the Union did to win and what it cost them. The first attempt at the Mule Shoe cost the Union about 1,000 casualties, the South lost that many in prisoners. The second attempt started at 4:35am and lasted until 3am the next morning with about 4 corps involved the bloody trench fighting.

Being completely honest though the Union did not really 'Win' any of the battles of the 40 days campaign. They fought and were halted and then maneuvered around Lee. Wouldn't really call that winning from a tactical sense. The other Corps (besides Hancockss and some of Wright's) didn't really factor into the Mule Shoe fight - especially for the in-game battle.

In the game, however, in this case suffering nearly 60% casualties out of an army of 75,400 fighting against a CSA force of 52,600 (Entirely 3* with 216 artillery pieces) is hardly anywhere near historical - and that is on EASY mind you. If the union army had suffered anything near this kind of casualty rate in real life on one day of fighting at the Mule Shoe Grant and possibly Meade would have been removed. In fact Lee had withdrawn most of the forward artillery pieces from the Mule shoe before the battle - hence why the initial attack was so successful even thought they are there in the scenario. This to me just shows bad scenario building by the Devs. No way to really pull punches here. That coupled with the inherent problems with the campaign system and the charging mechanics, for example, make for very poor playability.

I should add, my main issue is I don't think the Mule Shoe battle really is a good example of what this game engine can do. I would recommend the Devs to pull this battle and use another example - possibly the cavalry battle between Sheridan and Stuart as an example in it's place.

[mhenry_101381]

Originally posted by SideshowCO:

Originally posted by mhenry_101381:

Sounds like you guys really need to research the battles of Cold Harbor and Spotsylvania and what the Union did to win and what it cost them. The first attempt at the Mule Shoe cost the Union about 1,000 casualties, the South lost that many in prisoners. The second attempt started at 4:35am and lasted until 3am the next morning with about 4 corps involved the bloody trench fighting.

Being completely honest though the Union did not really 'Win' any of the battles of the 40 days campaign. They fought and were halted and then maneuvered around Lee. Wouldn't really call that winning from a tactical sense. The other Corps (besides Hancockss and some of Wright's) didn't really factor into the Mule Shoe fight - especially for the in-game battle.

In the game, however, in this case suffering nearly 60% casualties out of an army of 75,400 fighting against a CSA force of 52,600 (Entirely 3* with 216 artillery pieces) is hardly anywhere near historical - and that is on EASY mind you. If the union army had suffered anything near this kind of casualty rate in real life on one day of fighting at the Mule Shoe Grant and possibly Meade would have been removed. In fact Lee had withdrawn most of the forward artillery pieces from the Mule shoe before the battle - hence why the initial attack was so successful even thought they are there in the scenario. This to me just shows bad scenario building by the Devs. No way to really pull punches here. That coupled with the inherent problems with the campaign system and the charging mechanics, for example, make for very poor playability.

I didn't say they won, but what they did to win, their strategy to win. It didn't cause a breakthrough, but they inflicted casualties the South couldn't afford at that point. Generals could be replaced in 5 minutes, raising a 1,000 men ready to fight took time.

[[14thLA]Vol.Viornisko]

Don't use frontal attack. Make deep flanking move.

[brett.a.hankinson]

The best option for this scenario is to leave the artillery back at HQ. Use your panzer divisions. Take 30,000 men to the SW Corner and 30,000 to SE Corner connect them along the bottom of the map in echelon then move north. I forgot to screen shot but I ended up in the positive for recruits/deaths

[mhenry_101381]

Originally posted by brett.a.hankinson:

The best option for this scenario is to leave the artillery back at HQ. Use your panzer divisions. Take 30,000 men to the SW Corner and 30,000 to SE Corner connect them along the bottom of the map in echelon then move north. I forgot to screen shot but I ended up in the positive for recruits/deaths

"Panzer divisions" Wrong war.