Chickamauga breaks the campaign.

[Slacker867]

I've enjoyed this game quite a bit. But this battle is just terrible - I understand what the designer is trying to do, but it's failing pretty large.

As you move into late day 2, the spawning of new, fresh units both on top of, and behind the line is simply breaking the scenario - in an attempt to counter the AI limitations I suppose. After prioritizing clearing rear areas, having units (particulalry large ones) spontaniously appear cannot be defended either in game or as a design element. I've tried both forward defense and pulling back - but it doesn't matter. You'll be dealing with units on both sides out of nowhere.

When 3MA reviewed the game, I kind of thought they missed the boat, but I gotta say that they were pretty spot on. Scenarios are fine, the campaign isn't too fun as you progress.

[Wright29]

Are you playing as CSA or Union when units spawn behind you?

[最底限渣男]

Map is big, plus the woods.
Endless woods indeed.
For a moment I thought I was fighting in Amazon River.

[Desert Fox]

My thoughts exactly.

Was about to post about this.

Playing as the union. The confederate get at least 4 cavalry brigades that "spawn" towards the 2 p.m. mark on jays mill and the brotherton crossroads.

I had 4 artillery batteries located there when the spawn occurred and it was a disaster.

Had to reload half way before in the battle to position infantry to be ready to deal with them.

Very bad. Worst spawning mechanics so far in the game.

[ohener]

As Union I never had rebel cavalry spawning on the objectives. They do have some cavalry which eventually gets around your flank and starts harrassing your rear that you have to watch out for though.

My main issue with the battle is that as the union if at the end of the first day if you hold one of the two objectives you need to capture the battle turns into an automatic draw, but if you retreat and lose both objectives then the battle continues and you get the chance to win on the second day.

Also I seem to get lag on this battle and I think day 2 drags on a bit too long.

[Jimbobyjoeboy]

yes chikamugua is very very hard, too hard to win without exploits. though i havent seen any spawning as CSA

[ohener]

Ok, I'm going to have to agree and reassess that this battle is terrible. After playing this battle for hours irl on hard difficulty and barely holding all the objectives I suddenly get notified that it's a draw.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=917342971

Wtf! how was this supposed to be possible!?! The enemy had 50% more troops than me, all 3 stars with awesome weapons including tons of cavalry and retarded 1000 man units of 3 star sharpshooters, the defensive positions aren't great owing to the entire map being forest, and the aI gets two whole days to grind against your army until there is nothing left. Even if I had acheived a 2:1 kill ratio for the entire battle I still woudn't have won.

This battle really needs to be fixed, make it shorter, tweak the objectives or AI, get rid of that "don't lose 50%" requirement, something.

[Desert Fox]

Originally posted by ohener:

As Union I never had rebel cavalry spawning on the objectives. They do have some cavalry which eventually gets around your flank and starts harrassing your rear that you have to watch out for though.

My main issue with the battle is that as the union if at the end of the first day if you hold one of the two objectives you need to capture the battle turns into an automatic draw, but if you retreat and lose both objectives then the battle continues and you get the chance to win on the second day.

Also I seem to get lag on this battle and I think day 2 drags on a bit too long.

There was no cavalry flanking me. They litteraly apperaed on the objectives (which I controlled) as soon as the break talking about "finishing the rebels before Longstreet arrives" occured. Roughly the 2 p.m. phase.

I had already destroyed Forrest and his entire compliment on the extreme Federal left, controlled the map from Jay's Mill all the way south along the impassible river and had sent skirmishers to make sure there were no stragglers.

Reb cavalry spawn on Chickamauga (ignoring troop position and objective control) during first main-day of battle = I stopped my Union campaign.

Situation right before the phase-break:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=911298458

Situation just minutes latter, with no possibility for these 4 units to have managed to reach their locations in the shots:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=911298484

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=911298498

[peterjamesholmes]

I just managed to win as the Union on easy (literally a last minute charge to secure the win) but I am on my second attempt as CSA and not enjoying this at all. I know the real battle was bloody but the casualties are so over the top and the enemy (whichever side) are so amped up that they achieve results that defy credibilty. For example a 3 star brigade being routed by a much smaller brigade or a 1000+ 2 star brigade in the woods being routed by 300 skirmishers.

[ohener]

@Desert Fox

You were right, a bunch of rebel cavalry spawns directly on top of the two objectives if you try to hold them. That's annoying.

[Chris-el-father]

ugh, my army is absolutely destroyed trying to hold onto all of these objectives as union. yet, even after holding all of them and wiping the confederate infantry off the map - draw (with ridiculous loss of prestige and crappy return of soldiers and money... and this is on easy) i wont be able to reconstruct my army to a third of what it was going into this battle and yet the war goes on. I understand the union did not win the battle, but i lost a lot more troops than at gettysburg and the cash I get at the end is far less than a half.

[IrateQuaker]

This is the problem with artificial difficulty settings I've been arguing against since day one. If you throw scenarios at the player you're no longer fighting a strategy game, you're playing a puzzle. It's not a good replacement for smarter AI.

[[BRE] Tancred]

I reported about those cav spawns in the testing forum for xtra visibility. Hoepfully they'll look it up at some point.

Other than that Chickamauga is challenging for a reason. The player is reaching late campaign and the challenge has to increase to keep pressure. This battle is like no other because of the heavily wooded terrain combined with advanced weaponry (it's late 1863 after all). Think differently and use that to your advantage. Large flanking maneuvers are generally largely rewarded as the ennemy can't see you coming.

[SideshowCO]

Originally posted by IrateQuaker:

This is the problem with artificial difficulty settings I've been arguing against since day one. If you throw scenarios at the player you're no longer fighting a strategy game, you're playing a puzzle. It's not a good replacement for smarter AI.

Also in agreement here. Forcing players to ceate a completely farsical meta for getting around the AI seems like a recipe for disaster from a game perspective.

[wanderingthoreau1987]

I've noticed the AI really exploits their ability to fire from the fog of war at units in deep cover and knock them back. I've played this map 3 times today and gotten a defeat each time. The cover is far too deep to crack and it costs so many men that it is hardly worth it to play.

It's just a shame because this battle is really just a nightmare. I've never run into a map that wrecks so much of the players force in an unnecessarily difficult fight. Thankfully I've the rep for once to just enter the field and leave without getting fired. This battle is honestly the only one in the CSA campiagn that I feel is as unwinnable as they come. And if the Overland campaign is even worse than this, well I hope the devs will understand when people rage quit. This game appeals too far too small a market for it to be so unrewarding late game.

[Das Emu]

What a great battle, I love it! One of the best in the game, so long and the Map so big. Many tactical and strategic maneuvers. Every brigade, every shot, every bullet counts. And the AI is very clever. Probe my defense, looking for my flank to try to overpower me in long maneuvers.

Cavalry which spawned behind my lines I had none. Of course, however, which have bypassed my line.


(Union, normal)


http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=921992293


http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=921992248