Demo Feedback

[Dexter]

I nearly finished the Demo at around 11 hours. The beginning of the game is the toughest part to get into. There's no hook, you're basically just pushing blocks around - a bit of boredom sets in, and the main character isn't very likeable (at least at the beginning). I stopped the Demo once during this part and returned to it days later.

Then I made the mistake of heading for the Mirror Isles first. Not a good idea, because we've got another Nothing protagonist with an "enigmatic" narrator following him around, and the puzzles are just the worst, I simply can't properly think in the abstract way many mirror puzzles require. I had to look up hints or solutions for this section the most, so I can finish it in time for the Demo.

The sections that were the most fun and also had the best protagonists were Heroes of Hauling (The Trio of Warrior/Thief/Wizard kind of reminded me of Trine), adding the Druid, Bard and Priest later that are also Okay. The puzzles here, especially once the Monsters show up were more straightforward and easier to conceptualize. Honestly, this section should probably be the first thing everyone plays, and the other ones should open up after, or you run into the possibility of losing people.

The second most fun I had with the Western section/The Promise, which for some reason was described as the "hard" section, but is nothing compared to the Mirror stuff. And the protagonist there seemed more intriguing, he's basically exploring long lost ruins and recovering artifacts, a lot more relatable and appealing than mirror guy.

Overall I enjoyed it and spent a lot of time with this Demo, so I added it to my Wishlist, but it's probably more of a down-the-line kind of game to get on Sale like "The Witness", not one I absolutely must have/play on release.

The two main things I'd work on before release are a better introduction (maybe some sort of Cinematic or explanation could also help?) and I'd start with Heroes of Hauling as the first area everyone gets sent through first.

[ssd]

>I simply can't properly think in the abstract way many mirror puzzles require. I had to look up hints or solutions for this section the most, so I can finish it in time for the Demo.

this is unironically the definition of a skill issue

[ut]

Originally posted by ssd:

>I simply can't properly think in the abstract way many mirror puzzles require. I had to look up hints or solutions for this section the most, so I can finish it in time for the Demo.

this is unironically the definition of a skill issue

It's good feedback though.

If a lot of people who are possibly interested in the game have the same difficulty with abstract spatial reasoning, but get along fine with Heroes of Hauling, then a game designer would probably think something like, "I should shove these mirrors directly in the players' faces so they don't get the wrong idea about the game and buy it when they'll hate it" or alternately, "I should direct players into this area once they're warmed up and familiarized with other more spatial abstractions," or something like that.

You can't really practice noticing geometric relationships without taking math classes or struggling with easier puzzles repeatedly. And even then, some people just won't be wired for it.

[ssd]

Originally posted by ut:

"I should direct players into this area once they're warmed up and familiarized with other more spatial abstractions,

This is probably fair feedback actually. imo this is covered by reasonable people having the instinct to go northwards and progress clockwise so it's already taken into account in the game's design. you always go north in every game. most games follow this design, Zelda: Twilight Princess, basically every Pokemon.

[Dekel]

there was a druid class?

[Cregan]

Originally posted by Deme:

there was a druid class?

The dude that changed everything he touched into crystals.

[[:-:]]

God bless there's no hook

[[:-:]]

Originally posted by ut:

If a lot of people who are possibly interested in the game have the same difficulty with abstract spatial reasoning, but get along fine with Heroes of Hauling, then a game designer would probably think something like, "I should shove these mirrors directly in the players' faces so they don't get the wrong idea about the game and buy it when they'll hate it" or alternately, "I should direct players into this area once they're warmed up and familiarized with other more spatial abstractions," or something like that.

I think this is this very naive "let's just fix stuff" attitude. Not shoving mirrors directly in the players' faces might be boring for people who actually enjoy figuring things out and this would break the pacing for them. And this is a pretty niche game, so there's no point in attracting more players to possibly ruin it for the target audience. I took a break from puzzles I couldn't solve. I didn't finish the whole demo, but I should be around 85-90% from what I heard.

[ut]

Originally posted by :-::

I think this is this very naive "let's just fix stuff" attitude. Not shoving mirrors directly in the players' faces might be boring for people who actually enjoy figuring things out and this would break the pacing for them. And this is a pretty niche game, so there's no point in attracting more players to possibly ruin it for the target audience. I took a break from puzzles I couldn't solve. I didn't finish the whole demo, but I should be around 85-90% from what I heard.

I'll agree with you if you substitute "naive" with "pragmatically mercantile". I was thinking first about truth in advertising but then thought, this game's situation, you want to attract and hold the attention of as many players as possible, including some that might be on the border of the target audience.

At this point, I'm pretty used to tolerating puzzle games having a ramp-up that's on the gradual side.

If you want to know the percentage completion, you can hit escape to get into the menu, pick the load another save option, and then you can see the number of puzzles completed on your current save, with the demo's total being 105.

[mikolajholowko]

I got stuck maybe on 4 or 5 puzzles so far, but mirror puzzles I'm just ploughing trough them like knife in to a gutter.