Winter ending

[QManRules]

When does winter end? Once I get to about day 20, everything freezes up and I make no money. When does it end???

[TarZ]

I think there should be 4 seasons which span on average 10-20 days

Summer: It could be plentiful to hunt, and chopping trees could yield 2 coins more often, crops would be faster and yield more coins. Downside is your mount gets tired faster due to the heat

Spring: Plentiful to hunt yet trees can only ever yield one coin.

Autumn: Trees could yield 0 coins or maybe couldn't be removed at all. Crops and hunting would slow down from the other two seasons

Winter: Deer and Rabbits are very scarce, trees would act the same as Autumn. Crops could be very very slow. An idea is that you would need to pay to keep fires going otherwise the people revolt? Mounts would move slower in areas with lots of snow

I feel like this would make for a better kingdom new lands!

[Ivellios]

I don't mind winter, it'd just be nice if it eventually ended. Why is every place Spring when you arrive, then to eventually suffer "heat death?"

Do you doom the people left behind? How would the island be, if you did not arrive? Is it because you're there (fate), or the crown?

But, they've already finished developement on K:NL. Winter is, for the most part, as they planned it... their only complaint, is that it doesn't kill you off fast enough.

Makes me wonder how they're going to handle winter in K:2C....

[Hummmmmmmmus]

They (hopefully) will make it so thay destroying a portal will end winter. That would be awesome

[jabberwok]

Originally posted by Ghigi:

After finishing the game, I went back to the 1st island. 1 portal you don't need to destroy, 1 archers' statue, trader, 2 farms....let's see how it goes, day 23, winter. I bet it will be an AFK game now on...

You will lose faster that way. There isn't much for you to do, but even on the first island, the number of Greed will continually increase. You need to keep recruiting archers to keep up with that. And, of course, that costs money. Winter comes earlier on the 1st island, which means less time to stockpile resources, so island 2 or 3 might actually be easier for surviving a long time. Basically, once you run out of money, you're just waiting for the first wall to break. Then you're screwed.

[jabberwok]

Originally posted by Ivellios:

I don't mind winter, it'd just be nice if it eventually ended. Why is every place Spring when you arrive, then to eventually suffer "heat death?"

Do you doom the people left behind? How would the island be, if you did not arrive? Is it because you're there (fate), or the crown?

But, they've already finished developement on K:NL. Winter is, for the most part, as they planned it... their only complaint, is that it doesn't kill you off fast enough.

Makes me wonder how they're going to handle winter in K:2C....

It sounded to me like they are planning something new for endgame content. The main issue with winter and the boat seems to be that the game ends up being an endless cycle of avoiding it, with no real ending to the game. This wasn't an issue before New Lands, as the game would always end when you lost.

[jabberwok]

Originally posted by TarZ:

I think there should be 4 seasons which span on average 10-20 days

Summer: It could be plentiful to hunt, and chopping trees could yield 2 coins more often, crops would be faster and yield more coins. Downside is your mount gets tired faster due to the heat

Spring: Plentiful to hunt yet trees can only ever yield one coin.

Autumn: Trees could yield 0 coins or maybe couldn't be removed at all. Crops and hunting would slow down from the other two seasons

Winter: Deer and Rabbits are very scarce, trees would act the same as Autumn. Crops could be very very slow. An idea is that you would need to pay to keep fires going otherwise the people revolt? Mounts would move slower in areas with lots of snow

I feel like this would make for a better kingdom new lands!

That would be kind of cool, but I think it would undermine what they are trying to accomplish with Kingdom. Winter, as it is now, serves a necessary purpose. As a kingdom sim game, Kingdom isn't really deep enough to go on endlessly. The initial expansion is the strategic part. If we let players stay on one island forever, the game gets boring very fast, as there is nothing for them to do. IMO, the whole game would need a massive overhaul (and probably have to become much more complicated) to continue to be interesting.

I suppose they could just turn up the overall difficulty so that players could never keep up. The advantage of winter, though, is that it forces you to plan ahead more, either rushing to get the boat finished, or making sure that you have all the resources you need to survive for a longer game. [The addition of the banker works really well for that.] It also keeps the mechanics and the visuals of the game connected intuitively, as players can see the rising difficulty just by glancing at the environment.

And, as I've said before, Kingdom is thematically centered around the futility of human endeavor in the face of time and nature. Nothing symbolizes that better than the looming threat of an endless winter.

[Howru]

Originally posted by jabberwok:

Winter, as it is now, serves a necessary purpose. As a kingdom sim game, Kingdom isn't really deep enough to go on endlessly. The initial expansion is the strategic part. If we let players stay on one island forever, the game gets boring very fast, as there is nothing for them to do.

Yep, you will understand this when trying to do Day 100 achievement.
From day ~40 there's nothing to do at all. I was sitting near bakery, intercepting beggars. That's that you will do for 90% of all time. One per two days I went to buy bows. And on blood moon I run and activated Archer Statue.
That's all I did for next 60 days)

It really lack endgame and Winter mask this nicely.

[Redrusty66]

if there's no way to cut off this mechanic, or use a trainer or something, I'll pass on this one. Saw it on sale @ bundlestars , started to grab it, thank gosh for the forums, 'cause false difficulty mechanics just made to frustrate and force 1 type of gameplay are a no sale big time.

[Howru]

Strange decision. Game is very atmostheric and entertaining. And actually quite hard, because you simply won't survive to see Winter in your first tries)

And since all gamplay in this game is "run to the left or run to the right", of course there's not much diversity in gamplay)))

[Hummmmmmmmus]

Originally posted by Howru:

Strange decision. Game is very atmostheric and entertaining. And actually quite hard, because you simply won't survive to see Winter in your first tries)

And since all gamplay in this game is "run to the left or run to the right", of course there's not much diversity in gamplay)))

There is more diversity than you think. you have the vagrant system. the worker/archer/farmer tool buying system. walls and you castle. your banker and so much more when you get the totems on your map.

[jabberwok]

Originally posted by Redrusty66:

if there's no way to cut off this mechanic, or use a trainer or something, I'll pass on this one. Saw it on sale @ bundlestars , started to grab it, thank gosh for the forums, 'cause false difficulty mechanics just made to frustrate and force 1 type of gameplay are a no sale big time.

Not sure what makes it "false" difficulty. The challenge is a natural extension of the world. Winter is a real thing that happens in the real world. Enemy HP boosts are not.

[Ivellios]

Having a bad camera angle so you cannot see the ledge you're supposed to jump to makes a game difficult... or the necessity for the RNG gods to look favorably upon you, otherwise game completion is impossible.... "difficult for the wrong reasons," is the very basis of 'false/fake difficulty.'

The farmers returning to the keep, so you can convert them to archers, does not constitute as fake difficulty, in fact it gives you something to work with since Winter is unending. Via game design, there's only 2 real reasons to still be on an island when winter hits: you're running behind building the boat (maybe even at your peril), or you're going for the 'Hundred Days Achievement.'

If winter eventually cycled back to spring, making it to day 100, wouldn't be as much as an achievement. This means, that in order to make it to day 100, requires STRATEGY and PATIENCE.. The anti-thesis of False Difficulty.

No bad camera angles, no enemies getting resource/health boosts, no needing that random drop otherwise you're finished.... none of that.

All you're doing is whining, because you want an easy way to get that 100 day acheivement, which will undermine the ones that did get it under the current model.

[Hummmmmmmmus]

Originally posted by Ivellios:

Having a bad camera angle so you cannot see the ledge you're supposed to jump to makes a game difficult... or the necessity for the RNG gods to look favorably upon you, otherwise game completion is impossible.... "difficult for the wrong reasons," is the very basis of 'false/fake difficulty.'

The farmers returning to the keep, so you can convert them to archers, does not constitute as fake difficulty, in fact it gives you something to work with since Winter is unending. Via game design, there's only 2 real reasons to still be on an island when winter hits: you're running behind building the boat (maybe even at your peril), or you're going for the 'Hundred Days Achievement.'

If winter eventually cycled back to spring, making it to day 100, wouldn't be as much as an achievement. This means, that in order to make it to day 100, requires STRATEGY and PATIENCE.. The anti-thesis of False Difficulty.

No bad camera angles, no enemies getting resource/health boosts, no needing that random drop otherwise you're finished.... none of that.

All you're doing is whining, because you want an easy way to get that 100 day acheivement, which will undermine the ones that did get it under the current model.

Wel the best thing would be if there was a 1000 day achievement but winter had varying dificulties (short, medium, long in length) and chance decided what length it would be.

[Ivellios]

Originally posted by RedJive:

Wel the best thing would be if there was a 1000 day achievement but winter had varying dificulties (short, medium, long in length) and chance decided what length it would be.

I won't ever be doing the 100 day achievement.... too boring... the only reason I played the same island as long as I have, is because I was wondering what day Spring returned, and having checked the discussions, I have found my answer.

Honestly though, and I've seen complaints about this on other games.... Devs should get all achievements, before putting them in the finished version. A 1,000 day achievement, if it was in, could only be from a Dev that's never played the game themselves.

[TanSerrai]

Winter starting: depends on the island - the winter starts later on the larger islands.
Winter ending: never. I am (every now and then) firing up my last game which is intended as a 'let's see how long I can hold out' - it's currently at day 392. It still snows, so no farms and nothing to hunt, just the banker for (some meagre) income.
Longterm game: I think I could go on indefinitely - its hard to say but I think that the enemy waves do not become stronger after a certain point. I have a double wall and lose the outer one every second blood moon or so, but the inner one holds. I have to spend coins for the archer statue and the wall statue before each bloodmoon - and have to repair a wall every now and then, so as long as I do not have to pay more I think I actually have a positive gold balance, even if max interest is 7 or 8 coins (I think its more but can't be sure - and am _not_ willing to experiment currently...heh)