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Says the guy who came to an active VR game's forum to assert VR is dead and accuse every VR developer of being a zero effort sell out. What, did you think nobody would say anything?
You have yet to provide ANY convincing evidence to your claims, or even any convincing evidence you even tried to prove your claims before or after you dumped your feelings in these threads.
Exactly who did you talk to that gave you this powerful insight into the intentions of every single developer in the VR arena? What interviews did you hold with the dev shops where they caved in and admitted to you that they had no intentions of making a game at all. They were just looking to make a "proof of concept" in hopes of being bought out?
See, I know you can't answer any of this. That's why you just hurl insults and run and hide. You have had every chance to use actual communication to discuss how and why you have come to these conclusions, but like every other weak little keyboard warrior, you just crumble to insults and hope the people calling you out just go away.
You still have the chance to explain yourself and postulate anything this side of reality that backs your claims with actual proof. But if you just want to keep slinging your sh*t around, I will be right here to bury every little lie you say in a wall of text so deep even the bots won't crawl it.
The developers of Onward deserve a lot more respect than the trash you're spewing here. Burns is right about Meta, and has every right to be pissed to fire over what they forced upon this game. But YOU decided to spin that into some lie about all of the VR developers across the board. Including the devs of THIS VERY GAME which does not follow the pattern you accuse them of.
So man up and converse, Tenko. Because I am not going anywhere unless the moderators start locking threads right after every dumb thing you say, or just ban me from these forums. Until they do...
YOU
SHALL
NOT
PASS!
If VR isnt dead...How come...
How come theirs no new VR headset brands?
How come there is more interest in HandHelds than VR?
Wheres the new Steam Headset?
Wheres the new Vive Headset?
Wheres the new Occulus/Meta headset?
Wheres all the games?
How come theres no game that has content lasting more than 3 hours?
Where did the hype go?
How come all of VRs best,most played games game out 5+ years ago?
How come just about everyone has a VRHeadset that just collects dust?
And if VR devs wern't sell outs...
How come most of Onwards devs no longer work for the company with afew even making an attempt to 'Re-make' Onward?
How come all the successful VR games get bought by bigger studios and then the game dies?
First let me start by saying Thank you for posting a clear and lucid response. That will tone down my a**holery quite a bit for sure.
I have plenty to report on many of these details and will do so in a bit when I am not having to drive in 20 minutes. You have plenty of valid points, but some of this needs to be clarified for anyone who might care to be reading this.
Thanks Tenko, I'll get back to you later today.
How come theirs no new VR headset brands?
I would place the blame solidly on Quest 1. When that price point hit, the other developers would have to figure out how to compete with that. The short lived offshoots would probably take their headsets to market because it's cheaper than dropping it entirely.
How come there is more interest in HandHelds than VR?
That was a natural inevitability even though the pandemic made cell phones, tablets and Nintendo Switch the new babysitter. It's hard to beat a game system that's always in your pocket or can just go in a car. But that's not really a fair comparison. Just because handhelds are high on the favorability list, it doesn't mean VR was ever expected to be that in the beginning. I mean, up until Zuckerberg seeing Ready Player One once and deciding he wanted to become exactly that.
Wheres the new Steam Headset?
I bet on hold or terminated. If I were a competing brand against Oculus, I would wait for them to balance out before deciding what your next gen headset will be and cost. Oculus was releasing headsets like Apple releases iPhones. And it's not like these guys aren't seeing what you are seeing. A realistic market level. And probably not a great one. So the next Index better not be $1000. We can all say that's a bit much considering the Q3 is half that.
Wheres the new Vive Headset?
Probably in the graveyard smoldering in ash. I'd give more credit to Valve staying in the game because they are a gaming company. HTC does a lot of stuff. They might opt for sunsetting.
Wheres the new Occulus/Meta headset?
Ok, I'm no Meta fan but I'd give them more than a year and a half to make a leap so great we might actually be able to have the original Onward on a standalone. Q3 was like 2023 or so. Q3s was a year later. Unless you mean like a successor to the entire Quest brand.
Wheres all the games?
It's definitely not a huge list, but there are quite a few games slated for 2025. I wasn't too interested in any aside Geronimo. This is an general list https://www.uploadvr.com/upcoming-vr-games/ but if you want some more complete and updated lists you might have to do the unthinkable and watch a reddit thread or something. I don't doubt the majority of these are going to suck, and many will probably not even make it to their 2025 launch date. But it's not like there's an insignificant number. Some have been on the list for years so who knows?
How come theres no game that has content lasting more than 3 hours?
That depends on how you look at it. I have over 2,200 hours in Onward. Some, like Superhot are more like wild experiences you show people when they come over. I've got a lot of use out of that with guests, never more than like 5 minutes at a time or so. But that was one of the first VR games and usually the one that impressed people the most.
Recently? I would wager that short form content would be a good parallel to follow. Not just the audience, but in general development. Ever since Angry Birds, video games have become quick, disposable "apps" in many platforms. It's logical to assume that a newer landscape would try to run with the idea of short and sweet over a planned amount of hours the experience should be capable of. Some, like Halflife Alyx and Lone Echo were much longer than 3 hours. But of course that was PCVR days and the equipment standards can no longer afford such high hardware demands when the majority of your players are on the Quest. The smart ones make trash like Roblox which kids practically live in and make a ton on in app purchases. Ridiculous and a blight on gaming, but it is there and they continue to grow. I suppose that leans more to open ended games being a better investment over masterpieces that transport you like a movie would. Ultimately, it's the decision of the dev houses or whoever owns them, so without asking them why they choose to make what they make, we don't really know.
Where did the hype go?
I'd assume the hype might have been a little more like the whole world on a viral lockdown and things like VR became more appealing since Ready Player One or whatever else seemed like a good idea when you are stuck inside for a couple years. But if that had nothing to do with it, I would apply the standard behavior of most new things that had a day in the spotlight. A spike up, a spike down, and eventually it hits that realistic market value.
One thing that happened in the middle of Zuckerberg's fantasy was the advent of AI. That had an enormous impact on our industry and especially a top social media giant like Facebook and Meta. But it has some advantages. There's zero proof of this by the way - A benefit to having to remain competitive in the AI field would be the potential to have AI handle a lot of the menial tasks that would be required for a massively optimized metaverse as some eventuality. I've never been impressed by what openai returns when you ask it to generate code. But what it does provide is close. At the rate AI is growing, I wouldn't be surprised if whole avenues of MMO universes are built and audited entirely by AI. It could have been a necessary distraction for Meta.
Maybe AI is exactly what is sending VR to the grave though. VR may very well be heading right there either way. You will know when it is there. You certainly won't be able to walk into a Costco and get a Quest 3 like you can right now. Those guys don't put you on their shelves unless they are positive. That could easily not be a reality in 6 months though.
How come all of VRs best,most played games game out 5+ years ago?
Sh*t I would say that about practically everything out there. I'm old, so of course they don't make it like they used to. I compare everything to Onward, Superhot, Halflife, even Defense Grid 2. They are all the originals.
But I wouldn't downplay what the Quest 1 did to the industry. Even newbie developers could see they would have to support that to stay competitive. I bet some loved the limitations because it meant you didn't have to plan a saga to make a hit. Just like the App Store and Google Play services back when smartphones came out. Around the Angry Birds era, it became standard to make BS disposable garbage with idiotic titles and UX reduced to single buttons. We're likely seeing something like that today. Q1 made it easy because it lowered the bar so far it was like VR went back to the Angry Bird era. Many even joke about it being a cell phone.
It was natural that the quality of games would reflect the standards of the leading hardware at the time. And maybe Q3 is enough to see better, more capable titles emerging. But I would say that dip down and gap in capabilities would be the reason why I favor everything from 5+ years ago. But then again, all those Quest kids wouldn't have that to compare to. So to them, the best games are whatever they are doing now. Roblox is one of those still dominating. I find it idiotic, but who am I to tell them what the best games are?
How come just about everyone has a VRHeadset that just collects dust?
It would be remarkable if everyone had one at all. But it's hard to definitively make such a claim as it suggests you know how often anyone uses their headset and why. There are stats to extrapolate the overall usage, but collecting dust might be a bit of an exaggeration to apply to everyone who has owned a VR headset. I bet plenty get bored. Plenty break and a replacement is out of the question. Some just get motion sick or hate it. Others don't. I'm not sure what difference it makes what anyone else is doing with their headsets, but when I load up, there are always servers to join and plenty online. There are always kids in the VR bays at the school. Plus it's fairly common, at least where I am, that many of us who know each other also play together in VR. Yeah, it's not anywhere near as popular as something like console gaming, but it's not like Pogs or Marbles either. Something we all may remember or heard of but never do today except in like special fangroups.
Cause VR was a hype train that Developers without jobs hopped on board to make a name,portfolio and some money off of while it lasted.
I'll choose to not belittle you for that last one, but even if that were the plans of many, it's not the plans for all. DPI has an interesting enough back story which can easily be summarized in these links:
https://www.uploadvr.com/onward-college-dropout-vr-shooter/
https://www.roadtovr.com/valve-takes-onward-developer-wing/
That's more for anyone who wants to know. I'm sure you were here long enough to know all of that. He did what my game development shop did. We made what we wanted to play. You could construe it the way you describe, but the motivation for choosing to take on a risk like this wasn't about making a name for ourselves or some twisted idea that we would be overnight millionaires or something. It was always about making something that seemed like nobody was doing. Dante was doing the same thing. If he was dreaming of an easy payday on some wild trend, we will never know.
None of this really means much and doesn't amount to definitive truth. The one thing to look at that will indicate a solid death sentence is when the absurd bill to develop VR and the library they choose to absorb becomes too much for the share holders to remain confident in. Those meetings happen quarterly. They will announce a sundown of services and go through the whole path of divestment like any other industry. But long term investment is often enigmatic. Hell, my favorite site I can't shut up about reddit has somehow survived while never making a damn thing for over 20 years but yet they lived long enough to go public and somehow appear as though they might someday be net positive. How long would you hold on to faith if you were funding something like reddit or VR? Apparently we're dealing with people who aren't shaken up by a $45 billion dollar deficit and a world as rocky as the one we're looking at right now. Even if you are convinced this thing is dead and buried, for whatever reason, they're not.
There are 0 new games that are full games and its been like that for years. Nothing but PoCs and playable demos in an era where a 19yearold and 20 yearold can make 'BodyCam' and have all of gaming talking about their game, in an Era where ONE GUY Creates the best Horror game to play with friends 'Phasmophobia' making a million dollars in afew weeks. Games havent been hard to make for a long time. and VR is no exception.
And I say this as someone who loves VR, and as someone who was waiting and hoping for a full fledged game that wasnt a sandbox, that wasnt a rail shooter, that wasnt a demo That wasnt just taking VR and adding it to games everyones already played.
I don't disagree with you, Tenko. The landscape is abysmal. Nobody's putting effort into anything except maybe a small handfull, and maybe less who have announced their projects. There may not even be any solid, exciting, planned projects at all on the horizon that will ever reach completion. They might all be that one guy who downloaded the Unreal engine and dropped all the paid blueprints to compose a fairly stable game and pull off another Phasmophobia, Angry Birds, or any other asset dump game that somehow makes millions. For some, that one game is what does it for them and keeps things alive. Remakes are on par with Hollywood, but really, what was the last truly original game you played on any platform?
I didn't expect the VR library to be more robust than it is now. Mostly because the game design for any project would need to factor how long the average user would keep a hot brick pressed against their face. But then again, I'm old and when I'm not at work I have too much to do to play games you can't jump in and out of without commitment. Onward is perfect for my demographic, no matter what its age is. It is perfectly valid to expect more and be disappointed that the platform has never delivered that for you.
My only point is that it doesn't make sense being so definitive when the biggest elephant in the room is why Meta hasn't terminated the VR end of the metaverse yet. We all see it coming regardless if it is 5 years or 10 or next month, sure. If they don't have an actual plan and really are just hemorrhaging billions that will eventually lead to a very slow, gurgling, unceremonious death, then they are comically foolish and we have just one more reason to have zero confidence them. I'm OK with that. But while it is still here, I'd rather not actively encourage people to jump ship as a developer or a player.