Weapons Talk

[The Law]

So, having just taken some time to go to the shooting range to try out MOST of the weapons in the game, I thought I'd make a discussion about how they all compare. When it comes to damage and recoil, they're all pretty dang similar (ignoring the shotguns and bolt action rifles, which are there own things). However, there are a few key differences that I think could be discussed.

Mag sizes: Considering that this isn't CoD, and the weapons all seem to kill about as fast as each other, what incentive is there to use low-capacity weapons? The SCAR and G3 are very cool, but that 20 round mag gets burnt through quite quickly. That's tolerable though, and the real problem seems to lie with pistols. The M9 and USP-45 are by far my favorite pistols, while the M1911, TT-33, and Makarov feel so weak with their small mags (and I just prefer the sights on the M9 more than the extra 2 rounds in the Glock). I think it would be interesting if weapons with smaller mags were given extra mags, meaning that you have to reload more often, but get more ammo overall (this would actually make sense for something like the M1911, since it uses single stack mags that would be easier to carry a lot of). Having the low-capacity pistols be suppressed would be an awesome way to balance them, too!

The SMG problem: I really wanted to love the P90 and MP5. They're just so cool, right? Well, I've had decent luck with them in matches, but I found that they have serious flaws while toying around in the shooting range. The P90 is sighted in to be accurate at about 3 feet away, and starts shooting high after that, which is noticeable on even the very closest targets, and makes you have to shoot several feet below the furthest-away targets. The MP5 has the opposite problem, shooting low, except that it doesn't even seem to be pefectly sighted in at any range, although it does feel easier to shoot than the P90 in most instances. Considering that all of the standard rifles shoot only a couple of inches low at the closest targets and can hit any target on the range just by putting the red dot on it, this is odd, and definitely needs looking into. The SMGs don't seem to have any advantages (except the 50-round mag for the P90), but this is a huge disadvantage.

Bolt Hold Open and Drop Free Magazine: As shown in this guide ( http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=835828064 ), the other big differences between weapons is whether or not they have the bolt held open when the mag runs dry, or if you can eject the mag with a simple button press. For a gun that has both, all you have to do with your left hand to reload is grab a new mag and put it in the gun, since both ejecting the spent mag and closing the bolt can be done instantly with button presses. The only advantage to not having a drop free magazine is that it is slightly easier to store half-spent mags (since you're already grabbing them), but you can do the same with drop free mags if you simply grab the mag before it falls out of the gun. Bolt hold open is purely beneficial, since it gives you the option to close the bolt with a button OR rack the bolt manually. Marsoc has a considerable number of primary guns with both options (AK5C, M16A4, etc.), while Volk doesn't seem to have any. Allowing Marsoc to have a slight weapon advantage probably is acceptable, though, since they have to attack while Volk can play a campier game if they so choose.

Automatic riflemen: These weapons easily deserve their own discussion. The belt-fed weapons have massive 200- and 250-round capacities, and they otherwise handle just like most of the rifles! The SA80 has a 200-round capacity, and it doesn't even have a complicated reload process! I used to believe that this was over-the-top and unbalanced, but I did realize that LMGs are missing two things: AP rounds and suppressors. Everyone on the map knows where you are when you start firing (especially on night maps, considering your muzzle flash), and you are less effective against armor if you're in a situation where you may only land one shot on someone before they hide or shoot you. These weapons are still extremely powerful (just take that PKM out to the range and hold the trigger, it takes FOREVER to run out of ammo), but they actually don't seem too insane.

Marsoc RDS vs Volk RDS vs Holographic sight : I decided to always try to use different sights on Marsoc and Volk, since that gives you another way of reminding yourself which team you're on (if you're aiming at a guy and can't remember, just look at your reticle!). This means that using that same holo sight on both teams is not allowed, which is sad because LMG's don't have access to the red dot sights. I found that the Marsoc RDS is just amazing; put the dot on the target and pull the trigger! The Volk RDS is just really awkward to use in comparison; slowing me down compared to the much more simple dot on the other team. The holo is my go-to for Volk, and is about as good as the Marsoc RDS. Having one more type of reticle would be AMAZING, since then I'd be able to use the Marsoc machineguns without using the same sight that I use on Volk side.

Favorite weapons: So, with the main differences established, of course I'd have to mention my favorites and ask what everyone else likes. I like quite a few of the guns, but certain features (those discussed above), put these weapons on top. On Marsoc, the AK5C and MK18 are very similar and fantastic in general. You get both bolt hold open and drop free mags, you get the amazing Marsoc RDS, you get 30 round mags, and the guns just handle perfectly in general. On Volk, the specialist's G36 stands out heavily from the other rifles, feeling similar to the AK5C except that it doesn't have that drop free mag. In terms of pistols, the M9 and USP beat out the other weapons easily, having big mags and easy-to-see sights.

I now realize that I went a bit crazy with this post and that 90+% of people won't even skim through it, but I don't see much gun discussion, and I'd like to get some going!

[Pirhana-A]

Nice post, about gun talking and realism, I found some annoying errors with the Sig SG552 Commando , it should have three fire modes: Single / 3 Shots / full Auto and the actual lever positions are false too, set to: Security / Single Shot instead of Single Shot / 3 shots. And the magazine should be transparent (like the P90) (IRL you can see how many bullets left and it's very helpful). And why can't we mount a 4x scope on it ? IRL the 552 is my favorite range weapon, but in this game I never use it due to these issues... I know that Dante has lot of work to do everything, but I would appreciate some fix about it... :-)

[The Law]

Thanks! I toyed around with the SG552 a bit today, and yeah, that limit to burst fire is a turn-off for sure. For someone that uses scopes, I guess that not being able to stick a 4x on it would definitely be a bummer (I've had mixed results when using scopes, and the RDS is just so reliable), but the gun just fits perfectly into the specialist class, which doesn't use them.

I'm just hoping to see a few more guns in general. There's only two SMGs (none for Volk), and there's definitely more room for pistols! As silly as it would be for there to be something like a Desert Eagle, I would probably be that guy running around with it if it was implemented, lol.

[Wickedj]

from my understanding all gun do the same dmg in this game from pistols to shotguns to rifles just the way you hold each gun and the fire modes and if it has AP or fmj ammo

thats it pistols all have fmj so they wont go through body armor if someone is wearing it

i always use the first rifle fromrifleman on both sides with holo and silencer

over 150 hours and it really does not mattyer what gun you use a pistol has the same killing power and flight path as the 308. bolt action sniper

[The Law]

Originally posted by Wickedj:

from my understanding all gun do the same dmg in this game from pistols to shotguns to rifles just the way you hold each gun and the fire modes and if it has AP or fmj ammo

thats it pistols all have fmj so they wont go through body armor if someone is wearing it

i always use the first rifle fromrifleman on both sides with holo and silencer

over 150 hours and it really does not mattyer what gun you use a pistol has the same killing power and flight path as the 308. bolt action sniper

Hmmm, I actually just spent a lot of time in the shooting range, and the trajectory (or "flight path") of the guns seemed to be one of the few differences between the different types of firearms. I can hit the furthest targets with a pistol fairly consistently, and there's a very noticeable amount of drop when doing so, forcing you to aim a foot or two above the target. It actually felt like the M1911 (which has no obvious advantages when compared to the higher-capacity pistols) might have less drop than the others, but that definitely could have been my imagination. With rifles, for comparison, you can put your red dot reticle on any target and hit it (and you hit a couple of inches low on the closest targets).

The more important differences are how they reload and their magazine capacities, and even those can be somewhat ignored as long as you're not spraying. Being able to drop the mag with a button, put a new mag in, and close the bolt with a button is really nice, though, which is why I tend to avoid the AK rifles that everyone on Volk loves using, since you can at least use the G36 and get that bolt release button (racking the bolt is usually the most awkward part of the reload).

It is sad that the shotguns and bolt action rifles don't seem to do any extra damage, and I hope this gets changed. Honestly, I could see them both being changed to being extra-reliable one-shot kills (maybe even having instances where they 100% kill someone without them going into a "down but not dead" phase, no headshot needed), and only having one ammo type that they can carry a decent amount of. The shotgun would be balanced by a low-capacity, high recoil, an awkward reload, and a slug that has very noticeable drop (which it already seem to have). The bolt action would obviously be balanced by the fact that it's a bolt-action, and I don't think that anyone would complain if it was extremely hard-hitting.

I like how the assault rifles and battle rifles are so similar, it makes so many of them almost equally viable (with mag sizes, firing modes, and reload features being the only pure advantages) so that you can choose whichever looks or feels best for you. This does seem to throw some of the more unique weapons under the bus, though.

Thanks for bringing in some veteran thoughts! You pretty much summed it up: it doesn't really matter that much what you use. I just like to talk about guns, lol.