Classes one should never pick?

[Hex: Onii-Chan]

Well, new tho the game, don't wont end up training a heavily underpowered or overcomplicated class. Any tipps?
I would prefer something in close combat with a lot of damage and of a positive aspect (so, rather Blade Master than Berserker i.e.)

[foxpirate]

what no necromancer or knoichi

[DuZo]

Only pick ranger if you like pain and suffering

lol seriously though, any close combat slayer is good as far as i've seen and know, but i think soul bender is the most positive/popular to party with.

Monk might be complicated to play but i never tried, but i think he's strong.

[Arcelite]

Originalmente postado por Bacon Apocalypse:

Yeah the only F gunner that has a solid lead over the M version is spitfires. F ranger isnt bad ether though for other reasons.

That's a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ lie if I ever saw one.

MLauncher doesn't have that much of a major lead over a FLauncher. The fact that FLauncher has AJ Reinforcement Part along with Alpha System makes her as viable as MLauncher's Concentrated Fire when with a 6/9 Sudden Annihliation. So I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

In terms of Laser Rifle, MLauncher is better because you can't get auto-charge with no recoil on FLauncher, but FLauncher has not only one, but two damage boosting passives at 2nd awakening.

There's also the fact Operation Raids, FM-31 Grenade Launcher, Ancient Trigger and PT-15 Prototype gets buffed with AJ Reinforcement Part later. And the fact that Ancient Trigger's slowness recently got shafted, making the skill actually good.

If it's Awakening Skills, MLauncher has a better one because FLauncher's is so freaking slow. Even if someone says every hit, the fact that the laser's targeting AI is so random means the laser can be ♥♥♥♥.

The reason why FSpit has a solid lead of MSpit is because they completely stripped everything good on MSpit to the point he's reliant only on Neil the sniper at this point.

FMech's problem is the fact she's reliant entirely on the G-Series, but combined with Devil's Toybox and Cooldown reduction pieces, she's more viable then MMech on some parts of Anton because of how much turrets she spams. But MMech got nerfed also because no more Massive Countdown (to abuse) so both are at somewhat of an shaky equal level.

Hell, FMech with Cooldown reset proc pieces can easily outdo MMech imo in terms of damage. Freaking G-4 Frisbee with unlimited Over the Limit.

And FRanger/MRanger are still stuck with one of the worst weapon types in the game. They're both in the "♥♥♥♥ unless funded" list either way.

[Edie.]

Originalmente postado por Bacon Apocalypse:

http://i.imgur.com/c4592Jl.png here this is pretty accurate to our current meta until the next balance patch and dark knight and creator get their awakenings. Mind you this is a raid tier list and we dont have anton raid yet but it just puts what classes bring what to end game dps or utility wise.

Can also list which are way more heavy funding then others.

Elvin knight is very complicated muscle memory and monk takes alot of practice and skill as well.

Originalmente postado por hoyR:

Some classes require more gearing than others, but all of them are worth playing if you like them enough. Obviously, this doesn't answer your question, so I'd say Avenger, Male Spitfire, and Male Striker are some classes that would require intensive funding that really isn't possible to achieve by newer players.

Well funding aside Mspit has a good physical build and give out special bullets to other gunners, while avenger just doesn't bring much to the table even with tons of gear besides lack luster dps.

Not sure I 100% agree with that Tier list, a 1st awakened Shadow Dancer is pretty damn effective, a 2nd awakened Shadow Dancer if you've any fighting game experience is freaking insane and can stunlock bosses indefinately while possessing the strongest single target percentile damage skill in the entire game.


There's even a trick to pull off the back assassinate on bosses you shouldn't be able to do it on (it involves combo throwing in the roll throw and immediately facing in the direction you want to assassinate and hitting it, it'll register as a backstab)

The only classes easier than them in solo clearing dungeons are Facerolling Pet classes like the Necro and the Summoner who can AFK farm.

[Bacon Apocalypse]

Originalmente postado por Helga G Pataki:

Originalmente postado por Bacon Apocalypse:

http://i.imgur.com/c4592Jl.png here this is pretty accurate to our current meta until the next balance patch and dark knight and creator get their awakenings. Mind you this is a raid tier list and we dont have anton raid yet but it just puts what classes bring what to end game dps or utility wise.

Can also list which are way more heavy funding then others.

Elvin knight is very complicated muscle memory and monk takes alot of practice and skill as well.




Well funding aside Mspit has a good physical build and give out special bullets to other gunners, while avenger just doesn't bring much to the table even with tons of gear besides lack luster dps.

Not sure I 100% agree with that Tier list, a 1st awakened Shadow Dancer is pretty damn effective, a 2nd awakened Shadow Dancer if you've any fighting game experience is freaking insane and can stunlock bosses indefinately while possessing the strongest single target percentile damage skill in the entire game.


There's even a trick to pull off the back assassinate on bosses you shouldn't be able to do it on (it involves combo throwing in the roll throw and immediately facing in the direction you want to assassinate and hitting it, it'll register as a backstab)

The only classes easier than them in solo clearing dungeons are Facerolling Pet classes like the Necro and the Summoner who can AFK farm.

How can necro afk farm? All her mains damage comes from Vallecre which she has to do directly as her own attack because he shadows her. Nicholas has most of the hold skills and the zombies also hold. She doesnt just summons zombies and watch them shred stuff.

[Edie.]

Originalmente postado por Bacon Apocalypse:

Originalmente postado por Helga G Pataki:

Not sure I 100% agree with that Tier list, a 1st awakened Shadow Dancer is pretty damn effective, a 2nd awakened Shadow Dancer if you've any fighting game experience is freaking insane and can stunlock bosses indefinately while possessing the strongest single target percentile damage skill in the entire game.


There's even a trick to pull off the back assassinate on bosses you shouldn't be able to do it on (it involves combo throwing in the roll throw and immediately facing in the direction you want to assassinate and hitting it, it'll register as a backstab)

The only classes easier than them in solo clearing dungeons are Facerolling Pet classes like the Necro and the Summoner who can AFK farm.

How can necro afk farm? All her mains damage comes from Vallecre which she has to do directly as her own attack because he shadows her. Nicholas has most of the hold skills and the zombies also hold. She doesnt just summons zombies and watch them shred stuff.

Was a joke, lighten up.

[Bacon Apocalypse]

Originalmente postado por Helga G Pataki:

Originalmente postado por Bacon Apocalypse:

How can necro afk farm? All her mains damage comes from Vallecre which she has to do directly as her own attack because he shadows her. Nicholas has most of the hold skills and the zombies also hold. She doesnt just summons zombies and watch them shred stuff.

Was a joke, lighten up.

Should of said chaos instead of necro then.

Originalmente postado por Arcelite:

Originalmente postado por Bacon Apocalypse:

Yeah the only F gunner that has a solid lead over the M version is spitfires. F ranger isnt bad ether though for other reasons.

That's a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ lie if I ever saw one.

MLauncher doesn't have that much of a major lead over a FLauncher. The fact that FLauncher has AJ Reinforcement Part along with Alpha System makes her as viable as MLauncher's Concentrated Fire when with a 6/9 Sudden Annihliation. So I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

In terms of Laser Rifle, MLauncher is better because you can't get auto-charge with no recoil on FLauncher, but FLauncher has not only one, but two damage boosting passives at 2nd awakening.

There's also the fact Operation Raids, FM-31 Grenade Launcher, Ancient Trigger and PT-15 Prototype gets buffed with AJ Reinforcement Part later. And the fact that Ancient Trigger's slowness recently got shafted, making the skill actually good.

If it's Awakening Skills, MLauncher has a better one because FLauncher's is so freaking slow. Even if someone says every hit, the fact that the laser's targeting AI is so random means the laser can be ♥♥♥♥.

The reason why FSpit has a solid lead of MSpit is because they completely stripped everything good on MSpit to the point he's reliant only on Neil the sniper at this point.

FMech's problem is the fact she's reliant entirely on the G-Series, but combined with Devil's Toybox and Cooldown reduction pieces, she's more viable then MMech on some parts of Anton because of how much turrets she spams. But MMech got nerfed also because no more Massive Countdown (to abuse) so both are at somewhat of an shaky equal level.

Hell, FMech with Cooldown reset proc pieces can easily outdo MMech imo in terms of damage. Freaking G-4 Frisbee with unlimited Over the Limit.

And FRanger/MRanger are still stuck with one of the worst weapon types in the game. They're both in the "♥♥♥♥ unless funded" list either way.

Lol wew your full of ♥♥♥♥.

Mlauncher has higher damage/gearing potential them F launcher even though they both have low a damage ceiling, his is just a bit higher and he's also much more burst focused which people want more in end game.

Called me a lair but agreed on F spit lol k?

No her problem is that she rely's on G series which makes me go close when he's squishy and their damage isnt that great to justify going that clos. No M mech summons viper faster and has WAY better burst then F mech. He's all about the robot suicideing which is where the damage is at.

F ranger at least has some utility when unfunded but the DPS ceiling potential when funded goes to M ranger.

[Illumina]

Ranger is just a memelord trap.
Stay away.

[Arcelite]

(Edit: Nevermind)

Also, I just SAID FMech relies on G Series. Did you even read?

And MMech got NERFED a long time ago. You seriously couldn't have expected MMech to be that crazy powerful since the class rebalance like last year still, do you? Tfw Chaos and Summoner has outdone MMech and FMech.

Also, have you even tried FMech's 2nd awakening?

You know what most Koreans type in the tier list for FMech? "Good Efficiency but very low population/recognition".

The most recent patches has FMech only like one step below MMech in some tier lists.

You know also what's been going for a long time? A lot of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ buffs to FMech. Tons. Ever since Optimus release.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKLxIcTtgRk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_LZJuwoA3E

This is even before the current buff. And both people doesn't even have Lord of Rangers on.

Finally, have you even played any of the female gunner classes besides FSpit? Cross that, every player knows MSpit is just trash besides Neil (but why would you even want to switch all those sets) to the point it's even common knowledge.

[i liek katz]

Originalmente postado por Arcelite:

MLauncher has better gearing potential? Excuse me?

Their BiS for Anton are both ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 6/9 Sudden Annihlation with Lord of Rangers. I don't know what the everliving ♥♥♥♥ you're talking about. If you're going to argue 5/5 armor and 3/3 accessory epic sets, might as well say every Elementalist in the game has a 5/5 Dark Gothic in their safe at that point. Even without Sudden, they both have to go Saturation Bomb 9/9 for Ancients/Otherverse. Literally what's the "gearing potential" you're bloody talking about?

FLauncher can only build Fire, but guess what: FIRE IS THE EASIEST ELEMENT TO BUILD. (Guild Dungeons accessories, enchant card prices, etc.)

You can argue MLauncher can build light, but why the ♥♥♥♥ would you even build that when even Steyr ♥♥♥♥♥ on Laser Rifle's damage up even with a Sudden Annihliation? The only reason you go Laser Rifle is because of the fact it's charge/recoil is gone with Concentrated Fire.

Are you going to point at Laserholic? Then I could point to Wooyo's. Also, who the ♥♥♥♥ builds Light Damage on an Launcher?! Even Ice Spark is better then a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Laserholic because at least it has Eleanors.

Also, I just SAID FMech relies on G Series. Did you even read?

And MMech got NERFED a long time ago. You seriously couldn't have expected MMech to be that crazy powerful since the class rebalance like last year still, do you? Tfw Chaos and Summoner has outdone MMech and FMech.

Also, have you even tried FMech's 2nd awakening?

You know what most Koreans type in the tier list for FMech? "Good Efficiency but very low population/recognition".

The most recent patches has FMech only like one step below MMech in some tier lists.

You know also what's been going for a long time? A lot of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ buffs to FMech. Tons. Ever since Optimus release.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKLxIcTtgRk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_LZJuwoA3E

This is even before the current buff. And both people doesn't even have Lord of Rangers on.

Finally, have you even played any of the female gunner classes besides FSpit? Cross that, every player knows MSpit is just trash besides Neil (but why would you even want to switch all those sets) to the point it's even common knowledge.

The fact you're telling people to reset for MLauncher from FLauncher due to their "major differences" shows how much you barely know about gearing in this game.

Hell, FLauncher completely DESTROYS MLauncher in terms of early game.

Stop using information that's been outdated since last year. It's almost as annoying as the amount of people ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Necromancer when she's actually ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ good now. You know how old that tier list is, also? It was made in ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ JANUARY. That's literally 7 months outdated considering we were buried in class revamps for the summer.

(Credits to Ark, the true hero of DFONexus)

You know what happened between the time of that tier list and the meta?

Huge Saint Nerf. (Still Jesus tier though regardless)
Huge Iron Strike/Bremen nerf. (RIP Support WM)
Anton becomes easier.
Multiple reworks.
Magic Cataclysm "nerf".
Huge Battle Mage revamp.
New Epics that completely ♥♥♥♥ on the previous ones.

http://www.dfonexus.com/threads/official-server-striker-balance-update-august-25th.12743/
http://www.dfonexus.com/threads/official-server-gunner-balance-update-august-4.12523/
http://www.dfonexus.com/threads/official-server-balance-and-etc-changes-update-august-18.12670/
http://www.dfonexus.com/threads/act-20-awakening-endless-war-class-and-anton-balance-update-july-7.12020/
http://www.dfonexus.com/threads/official-server-female-brawler-and-avenger-balance-update-june-9.11765/
http://www.dfonexus.com/threads/official-server-m-striker-and-infighter-balance-update-april-14.11066/
http://www.dfonexus.com/threads/official-server-epic-equipment-rework-update-july-28.12418/

Now that I realized it, why the ♥♥♥♥ were you giving him pure endgame information. Dude wanted only info on early game ♥♥♥♥.

What the ♥♥♥♥ am I reading? FLauncher is outright destroyed by MLauncher in endgame potential. Anton isn't in a sustained meta anymore, and she is entirely sustained. FLauncher has a lower floor than MLauncher, but she also has a lower ceiling. She's also pretty much locked into chron, it requires some good gear for her to drop 6pc Sudden Annhilation to 3pc, but it's very hard for her to drop 3pc. Also, Saint wasn't nerfed overall, they are more reliant on their mainstat now after the patch, and less reliant on their tooltips. Thier tooltips were nerfed, and their stat stacking was buffed. Also, about the tier list Bacon posted, he clearly stated that it was accurate to OUR current patch.

[Arcelite]

1. I don't know if the fact that MLauncher has two routes, Light (AKA drowning yourself in light damage because MLaunchers have literally half their skills, which two has a long cooldown, that uses light/neutral) and Fire is supposedly better endgame potential.

Basically, the fact that Destroyer using Gracia doesn't work make his floor to ceiling gap so high... Haven't played Laserholic Destroyer, but heard the build's been a bit shaky.

Maybe I don't get it. But the fact that 6 Piece SA and a Liberation Cannon works so well on her honestly makes her more friendly in terms of early-mid parts of the game. I don't it's a problem that SA works so well on her. It's mostly due to her Flame Pillar/Flamethrower being better then MLauncher's. :L

The only thing that's honestly a must after 6/9 is the Anton 3 piece accessory set and a fire magic stone for FLauncher (besides the EE swap sets).

Though, when it comes to Main Carry, I'll concede that she's definitely not that tier.

Her Floor is lower, I agree. But her ceiling isn't that completely abyssmal.

So I might've jumped the gun there when it came to saying MLauncher's BiS was LoR with 6/9 Sudden Annihliation and all that other part. I apologize for the mistake there.

2. Except the tooltips were revised and most undergeared Saints were nerfed. (Making amps more important then usual). Though, I guess it punishes most of the "Oh, I just have a pocket Saint" people now.

Either way, on the third point: Honestly, I still don't think FMech is that abyssmal compared to MMech in terms of damage still. While MMech has to build auras/elemental damage for his summons, FMech can build MV for unlimited Over The Limit, which is an ludicrous buff. Even if you can only have 1 G-series out at a time, Raptor does ridiculous damage.

[i liek katz]

I can't speak Mech talk, since I don't know much on the 2 classes. You must have a skewed view on FLauncher though, she's in a tight spot now, in Korea. She use to be very popular in the raid when sustained was the meta, but after the shift to burst, she's been slowly dying off in popularity. Her ceiling is pretty bad too, her kit is even designed to be sustained. AJ Reinforced Parts benefits from longer channeled skills, and overcharging skills. She isn't wheelchair tier at least, like FBrawler.

[RichRuzz]

Anyone know how Demonic Lancer fits in to the "tiers"?

[i liek katz]

Originalmente postado por RichRuzz:

Anyone know how Demonic Lancer fits in to the "tiers"?

Afaik, Vanguard is considered to be in the higher tiers, he has superb burst. Skirmisher, I think is signifantly lower than Vanguard, but I don't know how much lower.

[Arcelite]

Originalmente postado por LordLyciaX:

I can't speak Mech talk, since I don't know much on the 2 classes. You must have a skewed view on FLauncher though, she's in a tight spot now, in Korea. She use to be very popular in the raid when sustained was the meta, but after the shift to burst, she's been slowly dying off in popularity. Her ceiling is pretty bad too, her kit is even designed to be sustained. AJ Reinforced Parts benefits from longer channeled skills, and overcharging skills. She isn't wheelchair tier at least, like FBrawler.

Yeah... It's pretty skewed, I'd agree. But at least they're learning how much the passives in 2nd awakening matters because of the current 90 value changes.

I still love how they changed Ancient Trigger, but wished they made it better. The skill still is too clunky and slow even with that much reduction of animations.

Going to be honest, MMech people have a distinct advantage in terms of setting down bombs. I'm not going to lie, the F-1 Friend is a huge advantage against FMechs. The problem with FMech used to be the glitch where getting hit would disable G-1 Corona's summoning, thankfully they fixed that.

However, FMech honestly has a better time making things stick in the air, like the boss in Black Smoke. And honestly, she can probably outdamage MMech in terms of Frisbee G-4 spam with Over the Limit spam combined with Cooldown reset epics. The problem is getting the right gear because you need to build 5/5 MV first, then start building weapons like Lord of Rangers and the 3/3 Anton set along with a light magic stone.

Honestly, she's been in a tight spot because of G-Series, but Neople has done a lot to help it (though we still need more). The G-Series themselves can't outburst A-Team, Time Bomb and Land Runner demolition, but they can outDPS it. It's just sad how the meta has been all about bursting bosses before you get to annoying boss mechanics.

And let's face it, FBrawler will probably be in that wheelchair as long as Junk Spin Assist is top tier... It's a sad truth lol