Best summon class?

[SupaMuffinMan]

Hey all, New to the game and was wondering which class has the best summon units? I did check out a few classes even the summon awakenings but i dont know, the videos i've seen when they summon Legendary Summon: War Maiden Lamos dosnt feel like his doing a whole lot of damage?

[Fuyuki]

it depends on the sorta gameplay u prefer tbh, each classes with summoning capabilities all plays differently

the aptly named summoner class is the only one that really does the whole army of minion thing, mech's has some of the army of minion aspect but m mech mainly focuses on disposable minions and that blows up at where he directs them to and constant resummoning of them while f mechs has an augmentative style of combat which may not even be consider summons depending on ur view point, both dimension walker and necro has a summon or 2 for dw his summon is basically almost entirely a stat companion cept for 3 skills of which 1 u shouldent never bother with while for necro she needs both of them out to use a number of skills but is like fmech's augmentative summon while the other is mostly for utility and dragon knight has 1 single augmentative summon which will cast some skills for her if shes occupied or they cna use it together

its true lamos doesnt really do much dmg in terms of dps but she is needed to be out to use the eclipse fall skill which is 1 of summoner's strongest burst skills, for dps the strongest summons is the tau king and spirit lord both of which do alot of dmg

alternatively there r also some classes that r technically summoners but arent at the same time like kunoichi and witch since kunoichi's fire shadow clones actually count as an independent unit apart from the kunoichi herself and while normally is invincible there r some things that can affect them like a stun based on the direction they're facing but it isnt a major problem for her and witch's machines like kuno's clones r also consider independent units apart from the summoner but unlike kuno's clones a witch's summon do hav their own hp and were once destructible if they were to take too much dmg which forcibly cancel the skill though this has been rectified with an update a long time ago giving them infinity hp but still targetable, witch is also capable of summoning homunculus with 2 of her swat skills but shes has no control over compare to other classes that mainly uses summons

[SupaMuffinMan]

Thank you so much for the big explanation! The last q's to sum up my decision is out of DW and summoner which of the 2 deals the most dps. Or I guess if there isnt an answer more towards how are they both effective at what they do?

[Fuyuki]

in terms of dps summoner wins this 1 no contest, she probably has the highest dps in the game if not among the highest but this is only speaking in regards to dps, in terms of burst both r pretty average though i do think summoner still edges him out on this too

also for that matter, the dmg dealing hierarchy is dictated by burst not dps, later on in the future there will be a dungeon called the beast 666 where dps actually does matter and summoner is consider 1 of the best classes for it

summoner also lacks much if any utility too offering only a spd buff which is irrelevant in the big picture, debuffs which isnt to the scale of other support classes and a 3 secs holding skill on a long cd while dw is known for having some pretty decent holding capabilities and is technically capable of being accepted into end games as a holder

[SupaMuffinMan]

thank you Fuyuki, you have help me greatly! I think i'll go summoner on this result.

[Fuyuki]

yw, feel free to ask any specific question about either of those 2 classes too, i dont main them but i do hav both moderately geared enough as anton raid slaves and am i of the few people who actually does bothers with these 2 classes as they tend to be avoided for having some rather complicated playstyles and gimmicks

[SupaMuffinMan]

Ah thank you Fuyuki ^_^, As summoner doy ou jsut summons all the summons? like the madien and big samuri dude and go to town on the enemys? or is it you have to specify a playstyle in the class?

[Fuyuki]

not really, both of her awakening summons; lamos and kasijas unlike the rest of her summons do not hav infinite duration nor do their duration exceed their own cd so they hav to be used strategically as kasijas's death bringer dance which is a 1 time use per summoning him and eclipse fall that can only be used while lamos r ur 2 strongest skills[i.imgur.com]

use either 1a or 2a or both only at the boss or when u know they still hav enough duration left on them by the time u reach the boss to be able to use each of their unique skills since it would take both of them +30 secs each to deal the same amount of dmg using dance or fall would do because both of their dps is actually crappy and compare to the rest of ur summons is in the middle of the pack, however lamos's communion skill is an large aoe with a 9sec cd allowing u to clear rooms extremely fast if shes summon but in the end u just hav to use them wisely

outside of these 2 ur only mandatory summons r spirit lord and tau king as dmg dealers and the fusion spirit hailom since he not only boost ur elemental dmg stats just by having him summon but his very presents debuffs surrounding enemies to take +20% elemental dmg from everything including other party members, also having hailom out makes it so that ur summons become invincible if u put them on hold with ur wait! skill, rest of ur sp goes into wutever else u want

her playstyle is pretty much using the loop of domination sklll at the beginning of the dungeon to mass summon 6 summons excluding lamos and kasijas (can summon mor but u dont hav the sp for more then 6 summons excluding lamos and kasijas and loop can only mass summon max 6 anyway) and just really generally manage them throughout the run since ur summons tend to atk things indiscriminately so use skills like wait and mass teleport to rein them in and mark the target to direct their aggression (but they tend to be slow at allocating to a new target from mark anyway but using mass teleport resets their target which if something is marked with mark the target when they get teleport they would would immediately begin whaling on that marked target)

the main thing to remember is not only to whip them to keep them buffed which increase their spd, enemy detection range and dmg but that whip also cure any debuff/status aliments every time they get whipped and knowing when to use their communion skill, a communion comes from her passive called communion which gives all of her summons a unique/signature atk where if u attempt to summon them again while they're already out they would instead teleport in front of u to do a specific atk, this is only for contract summons though since every other summons has a built in communion skill including lamos but excluding hailom who cannot atk and kasijas who instead has a built in related skill like what run amok is to tau king and eclipse fall is to lamos, each summon's communion skil has its own different cd and is separate from the skills own cd to summon them instead and turns the skill icon green when a communion skill is available to be used

summoner also has a dismiss skill which as u can guess unsummons everything u hav out, generally u wont be using this summon much since u can simply put ur summons on wait with hailmon out if u dont want them killed in a situation where u shouldnt be atking but it cna also be used to resummon and thus renewal a summon's duration since spirit summons only hav a duration of 200 secs while contract summons r infinite or fill up their hp if they r low on it and may die carelessly since u hav no ways to actually heal ur summons

ill upload vid tomorrow with my summoner running though the echon dungeons to show how a summoner would be played so u can get a mor visual idea of it

[SupaMuffinMan]

Amazing! I feel so comfertable now witht he class because of you
Look forward to the video!

[joj0.st4r]

hmm just a tiny little thing here

the summoner is not fun...
you will have like 15 monsters running around everywhere and you are just going to stand there basically not playing the game
and since the game is so easy ATM not having to do anything at all more than refresshing your lower spirit skill whenever they run out is not fun at all

DW atleast have to do things on his own
the summoner does nothing NOTHING

you summon out everything in the first room and then you avvoid damage for the rest of the dungeon...repeat untill endgame
its even hard to pick up items becouse your monsters are going to make it hard to see anything that is going on

[Fuyuki]

whether summoner is fun or not is subjective, if he enjoys summoner then let him

also u also obviously never played summoner if u think she has 15 minion out at any time (not even true even before renewal) and lazy around while doing nothing else, people avoid summoners in general because of the stigma of being 1 of the classes with the highest amount of micromanagement required, this obviously conflicts with every meme that tries to say shes the laziest class

Originally posted by Princess:

Look forward to the video!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XRR0Nm_JjM&feature=youtu.be

3x runs of echon and then its special ver unlocked after doing 3x runs of it

oh and, ignore my mods

[SupaMuffinMan]

Thank you so much for the play through! That play looks so fun lol :D. But the talent tree sorta confuses me a bit.
1) Are dragons, plants, black knights not good?
2) how do you make the summons move fast and near you?
3) I see you got an extra blue hovering summon person?
4) I take it lvling the little elementals to big ones isnt a good idea?

I'm at lvl 34 and almost 35 but after watching you play i feel i made alot of mistakes in were to place SP points. ( i enjoy the trial and error but i feel a bit confused with some abilities being worth it or not).

[Fuyuki]

Originally posted by Princess:

1) Are dragons, plants, black knights not good?

the plant and knight is decent enough but plant is rooted to where he is summoned or at the entrance of a room when u move between rooms unless u use his communion skill which will teleport him to where r u, basically hes very inconsistent but otherwise is actually good, the knight can deal about the same amount of dmg as the plant when plant is consistent so u can consider them rather equal to each other in offensive powers, the mini dragon on the other hand is rather crappy for dmg

Originally posted by Princess:

2) how do you make the summons move fast and near you?

do u whip ur summons, the higher lvl of whip the faster it makes ur summon so it just may be that u hav a low lvl whip at the moment, on the other hand u can turn summoner's train buff on to make ur summon constantly follow and will not seek out targets to atk by themselves until a target is near u

Originally posted by Princess:

3) I see you got an extra blue hovering summon person?

the blue person is the spirit lord summon, i hav a weapon called spirit lord's protection which allows me to hav 2 of her out at the cost of halfing her duration so unless u hav this weapon too every summoner will only be able to hav 1 of her out at any time

Originally posted by Princess:

4) I take it lvling the little elementals to big ones isnt a good idea?

the lesser spirits r crappy, they only useful for the spirit sacrifice where u use them as living bombs but that skill itself doesnt do enough dmg to make it mandatory so i dont use them altogether, the greater spirits however r pretty good with the dark being the strongest and the water 2nd, the fire and light greater spirit r moderate

Originally posted by Princess:

I'm at lvl 34 and almost 35 but after watching you play i feel i made alot of mistakes in were to place SP points. ( i enjoy the trial and error but i feel a bit confused with some abilities being worth it or not).

dont worry too much about this, summoner wont be able to grab/max every summon but they're rather lenient on wut is mandatory compare to other classes where even individual builds resemble one another heavily, summoners only need to grab their utility skill, buff skills and for summons its both awakenings, tau king, spirit lord and hailom, rest of the sp goes into summons of ur preferences, i just so happened to pick aquarious, dead murker and louise

[SupaMuffinMan]

Cheers for the infomation my confusion has been uplifted :D

[joj0.st4r]

I only have a lvl 55 summoner
and i do have 15 summons out all the time (4 lower spirits,4greater,Louise,tau,knight,spirit lord,efreet,hodor,the combined element thing and then sometime i bring in kasijas for bosses
not sure what you are talking about

i only use the zealous creature buff...dont like the idea of hitting my summons

this might not work later on...but for the moment everything dies when i stand around doing nothing

also...the flower is kind of useless otherwise i would be having 16+Kasijas

I guess you could be a more active summoner and use her other skills
but why bother when you can just fill the rooms with your own monsters and let them do the work

[Fuyuki]

ur lvl 55, using a build that will probably make every summoner main barf and u though u had credibility in anything to say about her?

filling the room with minions doesnt work, only time they work is when everything is drastically weaker which is inapplicable to end game, their AI can also be rather stupid sometimes too making u hav to direct them and in some cases letting them run freely is a 1 way road to disaster and getting u kicked outa end game content let alone even having enough sp at the end to grab mor then 5-6 summons excluding awakenings anyway, 7 if u really wanna stretch urself out thin and as i already said even before renewal summons dont really keep summons reaching into the 2 digits out, they only really keep 1-3 mor summons out from wut the number is now and that includes even awakenings, only time summoners ever kept summons reaching the 2 digits out was when they hav the dark gothic set since then lvling the lesser spirit stalkers wouldve actually been viable as they could also be used with spirit sacrifice to further lower the dark resist of a target

at max whipping ur summons increases their atk spd by mor then 50%, mov spd by mor then 70% and +200 int to them along with expanding aggro range by about half to 1/3 of a the screen from wut their detection range already is, whipping also doesnt even dmg any of them nor do they even revive hitstun from it either

and as for plant this chart[prnt.sc] will show u how much dmg her summons would do over 30 sec relatively to each other on their own and as u can see akuso the hellflower ends up being among the stronger of her summons


another reason why u should be mor active is this, in the training room against the giant nugol mob for raid standards it would take 1min and 41 secs[prntscr.com] for me to kill it while not doing anything anything else except whip and mark takes 2min and 25 secs[prntscr.com] instead, in actual endgame u wont even hav 30 secs to deal dmg, the dmg window is not evne 10 secs in most cases, u hav to deal dmg as fast as u can in a short time frame