Why is the Royal Oak in Scapa Flow not a Revenge-Class?

[Dragon King]

The Royal Oak we sink in-game is a Nelson-Class instead of the Revenge-Class which is what was sunk. Do plans exist to add the Revenge-Class ship??

[kimdownunder]

This seems like something the Devs could easily fix.

[Blind Faith]

I made comment about the Nelson class being used, and the whole balance of the mission, quite a while back, about 6-8 months ago. One of the dev's to his credit got straight back to me and said that they had reworked the balance of the mission (the updated balance is in this beta, I believe) but that they were time constrained when it came to building a new ship model - a Revenge class - so they wouldn't be able to do that. I suggested that they farm the job out to the modding community but got no reply.

It may not seem to be a big thing for many players, but for a game that seems to be going all out for historical accuracy when it comes to the simulation side, it sticks out like a sore thumb. I fully believe that a new model should be made and implemented, if not in this beta phase,but as a priority in patches when the game goes fully live.

[panzerd18]

One of the reasons not allowing modders to create one could be due to legal reasons. If it is created in house it is legally theirs, but outside of that it could be pulled from anywhere opening up future legal issues.

[Blind Faith]

Originally posted by panzerd18:

One of the reasons not allowing modders to create one could be due to legal reasons. If it is created in house it is legally theirs, but outside of that it could be pulled from anywhere opening up future legal issues.

That makes sense, but they could potentially pay the modder (not sure of their monetary situation) for the work, acknowledge the work by the modder but retain the rights. I suppose they would have to specify that work must be entirely done by the modder and that no other third party resources be used. But, hey, I'm no lawyer. I just think there must be a way of getting it done so we don't have this ridiculous situation of the Royal Oak being a Nelson class. Even a Queen Elizabeth class would be passable but a Nelson is completely wrong.

[link]

you find me or make me a good quality revenge class model, I will gladly add it into the game.

[El Rushbo]

I wonder if there could be some legal limitation. If I recall the PBY Catalina is copyrighted, which makes its use in games limited due to having to pay royalties.

[kimdownunder]

Why is there all this angst about having to make a new model? Why can’t the Devs just take the Nelson-class model, clone it and call the clone a Revenge-class, and the problem is fixed. Or even clone one of the cruiser models.
It will make no real difference to the game, the ships are just targets anyway. It isn’t as though a player would be able to get command of one.

[Blind Faith]

Originally posted by kimdownunder:

Why is there all this angst about having to make a new model? Why can’t the Devs just take the Nelson-class model, clone it and call the clone a Revenge-class, and the problem is fixed. Or even clone one of the cruiser models.
It will make no real difference to the game, the ships are just targets anyway. It isn’t as though a player would be able to get command of one.

The problem is that the Nelson doesn't look anything like a Revenge Class Battleship. I'm not sure if you have seen the two classes side by side, but the most glaring difference is the Revenge class has eight guns in four turrets set up as two fore turrets (A,B) and and two aft (X,Y) whereas the Nelson has 9 guns in three turrets all forward of the conning tower (A,B,C). The only cruiser that might come class is a heavy town class as that has the same gun layout but still looks wrong. The simplest change would be not to reference the Royal Oak and just have any battleship there, but then in many way the mission loses it's historical significance.l

That significance is, the Royal Oak - the ship that was sunk by a uboat at Scapa Flow - was a Revenge class battleship, not a Nelson class nor a Cruiser. If you're going to call it a historical mission by naming the ship the Royal Oak, then make sure the ship that's there looks something like it. Better still, model it properly. I don't think it's too much to ask, though it might be something that can be done once this beta is finished. But if the developers want to be in any way historically correct, it needs to be done.

As for your point that it will make no difference to the game, why model any ship. Just have one type of ship that looks vaguely like a cargo ship (doesn't matter if it's cargo or oil onboard, it's just tonnage and a target, after all) and one type that looks vaguely like a destroyer/corvette. I wonder how that would work out?

I know how it would work out - bloody terrible. It would completely break immersion, just like sailing into Scapa Flow looking for a Revenge class battleship called the Royal Oak and finding the Nelson/Rodney with a name change.

[kimdownunder]

Blind Faith - yes, I take your points. I am very well aware of the difference between the two classes. I just thought it may at least have resolved the issue of sinking a Revenge class rather than a Nelson Class. I did not think it through. Well, maybe the Devs will get around to it one day.

[Blind Faith]

Originally posted by kimdownunder:

Blind Faith - yes, I take your points. I am very well aware of the difference between the two classes. I just thought it may at least have resolved the issue of sinking a Revenge class rather than a Nelson Class. I did not think it through. Well, maybe the Devs will get around to it one day.