Map icon removal - question for the devs

[Alf Tupper]

I have searched the discussions, and I understand that to completely remove icons from the map, I need to use a mod. I'm not clever enough to install mods, plus as per point 2 below, if I make the game harder, then I'd like some recompense in my scores :-)

1 - Have the devs considered making this an integral part of the game play yet?

2 - If made integral to the game, I assume it will then feature in the realism % score?

If this has already been discussed etc, please post a link, that would be great!

[Red_Seven_]

I'd absolutely love another difficulty setting considering the map options. After figuring out how to properly calculate firing solutions and escape from some destroyers hunting you down the game is a cakewalk just because the information you get through the map view is so detailed (in an unrealistic way). It's basically an arcade sub-shooter then.

If you want realism/simulation playstyle you have to force yourself to not use the information at hand or use mods (e.g. realistic navigation which also adds the sextant task and even requires another mod). Map2d simply removes the 3d close-up zoom, but you can still see the icons of the ships and their course and also use the target camera, so it basically doesn't make it any harder.

If there's any setscrew on the difficulty it's definitely the map view. Hopefully they'll make some serious changes there.

[WhjiteWolf]

"I'm not clever enough to install mods?"....

choose one from steam workshop by pressing subscribe button
turn on mod at launcher menu

i'm surprised you knew how to reach this discussion forum and do a post if you think mods are hard...

[Alf Tupper]

Originally posted by WhjiteWolf:

"I'm not clever enough to install mods?"....

choose one from steam workshop by pressing subscribe button
turn on mod at launcher menu

i'm surprised you knew how to reach this discussion forum and do a post if you think mods are hard...

I will give it a try - thank you for the instructions. I have not installed mods before so I suppose it can't be that hard really can it?

[Alf Tupper]

Originally posted by Red_Seven_:

I'd absolutely love another difficulty setting considering the map options. SNIP

It's also things like you can look at ships using the video camera mode, or follow your own torpedoes using the same feature. It's good eye candy but can also take you out of immersion/realism I suppose. Thanks for a a very interesting answer.

[BloodletterUK]

Yes, I wish the Devs would add another level of granulation in the difficulty and allow map icons and zooming to be turned off.

The Real Navigation mod does this, but it also means that your own uboat icon is removed and requires you to navigate (as the mod suggests). I wish there was a middle road here, as I can handwave seeing my own sub on the map at all times - that's why I have a first mate at the navigation table after all.

Something the Real Navigation mod also does is get your watch officer and hydrophone specialist to tell you a rough bearing and distance to a contact. This is also currently missing from the base game and would be a necessary addition if the Devs were going to allow you to turn off map icons and zooming. I can't for the life of me understand why this hasn't been included. It seems like a major oversight that your officer doesn't say "ship sighted, bearing 150, long range". I hate having to look at the map and instantly receiving more or less perfect information.

[Red_Seven_]

Originally posted by BloodletterUK:

Yes, I wish the Devs would add another level of granulation in the difficulty and allow map icons and zooming to be turned off.

The Real Navigation mod does this, but it also means that your own uboat icon is removed and requires you to navigate (as the mod suggests). I wish there was a middle road here, as I can handwave seeing my own sub on the map at all times - that's why I have a first mate at the navigation table after all.

Something the Real Navigation mod also does is get your watch officer and hydrophone specialist to tell you a rough bearing and distance to a contact. This is also currently missing from the base game and would be a necessary addition if the Devs were going to allow you to turn off map icons and zooming. I can't for the life of me understand why this hasn't been included. It seems like a major oversight that your officer doesn't say "ship sighted, bearing 150, long range". I hate having to look at the map and instantly receiving more or less perfect information.

That would be exactly what I'm waiting for. A real navigation mod without the sextant task but still showing your own postion on the map. It even feels somehow stupid to constantly check your current position while you still have to have someone work at the navigation table because you would get lost otherwise...

[aqwerty]

Originally posted by Red_Seven_:

I'd absolutely love another difficulty setting considering the map options. After figuring out how to properly calculate firing solutions and escape from some destroyers hunting you down the game is a cakewalk just because the information you get through the map view is so detailed (in an unrealistic way). It's basically an arcade sub-shooter then.

If you want realism/simulation playstyle you have to force yourself to not use the information at hand or use mods (e.g. realistic navigation which also adds the sextant task and even requires another mod). Map2d simply removes the 3d close-up zoom, but you can still see the icons of the ships and their course and also use the target camera, so it basically doesn't make it any harder.

If there's any setscrew on the difficulty it's definitely the map view. Hopefully they'll make some serious changes there.

Yes, the map is currently the biggest spoiler: far too much information given away. SH3, at least with GWX, works so much better in this respect. Also the soundscape of the map should be the one heard in the command room (which is pretty good already), now it breaks the immersion completely, no matter how fancy 3D view it offers. You can attack without never raising your scope as even the hydrophone offers you exact location of ships when they are close enough. That was very difficult to do in SH3 but here a piece of cake in most cases.

So please, fix this before leaving early access!

[urseus]

Use real navigation mod, and schedule an officer to be at navigation almost all the time, and press the estimate position button. Gives you the position well enough to do what your asking.

[link]

You could always install a mod which removes all the ship icons from the map

[MarkShot9]

I think the game should offer a hardcore mode or make it easy to mod in. This is especially important to promote truly extended play and longevity (as such players continue to seed the community with noobs via their assistance).

But we must be realistic. Market comes from the 3D and cinematographic experience.

I remember the Project Manager for SH3 said roughly 'This game will sell. As we will produce a game that rivals any flight sim.' And so, he did. So, the true sub experience is claustrophobic and blind; far more so than the modern day.

However, I do not agree with zero AI assist. Why? If you read books like Captain O'Kane's Wahoo and Clear the Bridge. The watch/strategy/attack party was a group effort with the captain having the final call and triggering the firing sequence. If one faithfully reproduces this, it is not one person task even simulated on a PC. Thus, some degree of plotting, calculation or calculation checks, should be provided.