How many of you are loitering shooters?

[MarkShot9]

The way I learned to do this was to take quick observations to set up solutions; meaning minimizing scope time and firing 5 fish at once; starting with the furthest target. So, ideally, you would be positioned in the middle 2 large targets forward with 2 spreads of 2 and one target fired from the rear. (Well, described in the book by US Captain ♥♥♥♥ O'Kane.)

As soon as the last was fired, turn perpendicular to the torpedo runs and crash dive and sprint briefly if the warships are distant as usually, they are going to plaster the spot you fired from. Then exit out of the back of the convoy silent. Note, your map position when firing in case you get hits, but not sinking so that you can come back and finish stragglers.

I notice that a number of people loiter near the surface with their scope up watching their torpedo runs. In some games, I only listened for the hits and break ups. In others, I did use a surface camera to watch the mayhem (but already began my evasion).

I guess I am curious if anyone is practicing cautious attacks? Is it necessary? Does it make a difference? Or is the AI so lame that there is no requirement to clear datum?

Thanks.

[Big Moustache]

The problem with T5 is that they break target when you break line of sight. So i use them on the incoming corvettes just before diving. Eliminating 2 or so escorts leaves much of the convoy undefended for the second strike. And easier escapes in between. With a engineer on the depth steering you can hover on periscope depth and stay hidden until you move.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3398829071
I waited for the cruiser to come closer
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3398831814
Cruiser down and nobody find me

[a_baby]

Once I get inside a convoy I rarely dive below periscope depth. Short scope observations to set up targets, pull the scope down below water inbetween sightings. Set up multiple targets before firing the first torp. I rarely send more than 2 torps at one target...depends on size. I'll often set out a long 100mi track so I know the convoy's general course and then sink a few ships, then move ahead again and repeat, depends on the escort coverage though. I find its easier to get inside a convoy and stay there than to hit-n-run ahead. Not uncommon to reload inside a convoy without diving below scope depth.

Single torps for ships under 5k tonnage, 2 torps for above...C3's and Liberties.

The german skippers were far more inclined to fire only 1 torp at a ship where US skippers would sail halfway across the Pacific just to fire 4-5 torps at 1-2 ships.

[MarkShot9]

Originally posted by a_baby:

Once I get inside a convoy I rarely dive below periscope depth. Short scope observations to set up targets, pull the scope down below water inbetween sightings. Set up multiple targets before firing the first torp. I rarely send more than 2 torps at one target...depends on size. I'll often set out a long 100mi track so I know the convoy's general course and then sink a few ships, then move ahead again and repeat, depends on the escort coverage though. I find its easier to get inside a convoy and stay there than to hit-n-run ahead. Not uncommon to reload inside a convoy without diving below scope depth.

Single torps for ships under 5k tonnage, 2 torps for above...C3's and Liberties.

The german skippers were far more inclined to fire only 1 torp at a ship where US skippers would sail halfway across the Pacific just to fire 4-5 torps at 1-2 ships.

True but by the end of the war there was nothing left to sink but Junks and Sampans.

[Wildsau]

Last few days i do tryout a new taktic by torp 1 big ship very near,. After firing I rush to it and hide as near as possible to the wreck in silence on periscope depth. It seems so far pretty good working that warships cant detect me while reloading torps and as position for further attacks

[grei209ks]

Originally posted by Wildsau:

Last few days i do tryout a new taktic by torp 1 big ship very near,. After firing I rush to it and hide as near as possible to the wreck in silence on periscope depth. It seems so far pretty good working that warships cant detect me while reloading torps and as position for further attacks

I also sometimes (and for a long time) use a similar tactic. Only, after I see no other opportunities to leave, I find a hit but not sunken ship, I hide under it (usually it is a depth of 28 - 32 meters). I wait for a long time until destroyers and corvettes do not leave the scene, after which I surface and inspect the ship. But there are different situations (not enough air or sailor starts to get hysterical). There was even a case when an allied submarine (it was hunting a convoy using the “wolf pack” tactics) torpedoed the very vessel I was “hiding” under. The vessel began to sink, trapping me and causing damage to my sub - dragging me into the abyss. I was the only one left alive. In the future, I did not use such tactics if there were allied subs nearby.

[OsmiumSteele]

Oh I miss those days. "Up scope. Target bearing, mark. Angle on the bow, port 35. Range, 1.3 divisions in high power. Down scope."

[El Rushbo]

While it's still early in the war I find it fun to sneak in when it's pitch black. More than one occasion I've crept in between two escorts. I move at slow speed as I pick my targets and get solutions ready. Then I close in with the first target and start unleashing fish. If they're alerted due to another sub or my attack, I'll crank the engines up to flank and hold off firing until I'm close enough to guarantee a hit. As I run through, I'll fire all five torpedoes, plus any others if they've been reloaded in time. Then I pick a gap in the screen and hightail it out of there at flank speed. I've seen flares lighting up the distant sky as I make my way clear, proud to have avoided detection while staying on the surface the whole time. Until radar was developed it was harder to spot a U-boat on the surface than it was to pick it up with ASDIC or a hydrophone. Plus the speed advantage of the diesels makes getting in and out of a convoy much easier. It's best to avoid diving unless you're certain the escort is coming straight at you. Even then try moving out of its path and see if they turn to follow. If they don't then you can safely stay on the surface and sneak by.

A couple points for above: You can say Richard O'Kane to avoid being censored. Also due to the faulty detonators on the Mark 14 torpedoes used by the US, it was standard procedure to fire three torpedoes per ship in hopes that one will at least detonate. US fleet boats were estimated to have averaged ten torpedoes fired for each Japanese ship sunk.

[Mouse Rat]

Originally posted by MarkShot9:

The way I learned to do this was to take quick observations to set up solutions; meaning minimizing scope time and firing 5 fish at once; starting with the furthest target. So, ideally, you would be positioned in the middle 2 large targets forward with 2 spreads of 2 and one target fired from the rear. (Well, described in the book by US Captain ♥♥♥♥ O'Kane.)

As soon as the last was fired, turn perpendicular to the torpedo runs and crash dive and sprint briefly if the warships are distant as usually, they are going to plaster the spot you fired from. Then exit out of the back of the convoy silent. Note, your map position when firing in case you get hits, but not sinking so that you can come back and finish stragglers.

I notice that a number of people loiter near the surface with their scope up watching their torpedo runs. In some games, I only listened for the hits and break ups. In others, I did use a surface camera to watch the mayhem (but already began my evasion).

I guess I am curious if anyone is practicing cautious attacks? Is it necessary? Does it make a difference? Or is the AI so lame that there is no requirement to clear datum?

Thanks.

It depends on your campaign settings, such as enemy difficulty, manual targeting, and whether contacts are displayed on the map.

Your description makes me think of a hip shot while on the move from the side of the convoy, rather than setting up a precise ambush position. Thus .. making the distance to the target a critical factor to account for, rather than a minor metric.

That said, moving into the convoy to hide beneath enemy ships and limit the maneuverability of pursuing warships is a valid and effective tactic.

The main change on how this tactics looks in combat is the presence of T5s and if you are willing to use them.

An improvement would be shooting non T5s from 30m deep, against multiple opponents, while map contacts are off, without using the intercept tool.
Once you can do that you solved the game.

[MarkShot9]

It would seem likely that Japanese Pacific convoys were much smaller than trans Atlantic convoys. O'Kane in Wahoo (Morton commanding) and Clear the Bridge! (O'Kane commanding) he provides both the rational and detailed sketches of the maneuvering to the shot. I don't recall a single shot from within the convoy, but always outside.

Also, I remember:

* Only the captain used the scope (rarely the exec), Morton allowed some as part of as part of O'Kane's training. It seems they were doing speed by estimating the bow wake. Possibly, since the scope was never up long enough to apply the time traveled approach (and the sub was never stationary).

* The scope was only up for 3-4 seconds to grab a datum or confirm datum as a solution was developed via the TDC.

I have not read any Uboat commander books. I just know that loitering admiring the scenery was not part the Pacific fleets SOP. If you really want to play on hard mode ... grab speed, type, AOB, course ...

Up Scope 1-Mississippi , 2-Mississippi, 3-Mississippi, 4-Mississippi Down Scope.

No screen shots or pause. But I do remember O'Kane using some plotting board techniques for course or speed, but these were more for getting into position for the shot than setting the gyros on torpedoes. But the bow wake was always the final determinant speed.