Ranks for player and officers

[Gelete Rojo]

Hi there, kaleuns.

I bought this game a few days ago and been playing it a bit. So far I am in love with it, it is along with Over the Flanders Fields, my to go ww2 sim today. Outstanding game that I hope will develop even further.

One thing I am missing from sh3 are the ranks for player and crew. Mostly for player and officers.

Regarding to players (captais in the sim) In the real IIWW most captains had the rank of oberleutnant zur see (1939 ) or leutnant zur see (1942 and later) and could be promoted to kapitanleutnant and then korvettenkapitan. Very few captains were even promoted to fregattenkapitan, but most of them by that time, have left the war service and join different branches of the BdU and the submarine schools.

A simple option would be to start the campaign in 1939 as oberleutnant, being able to be promoted to kapitanleutnant and korvettenkapitan, and then offered to retire from the active service if promoted to fregattenkapitan or just stay in active service till the end of the war.

Regarding to officers, most officers in uboats attached ranks of fahrnich zur see, oberfahrnich zur see and leutnant zur see. (some engineers were oberleutnant zur see but is not necessary to include every single detail in the game). The trick here is that some of your top officers, once promoted to leutnant zur see, could be ordered to leave your crew to join the kriegsmarine school for captains, thus leaving your ranks to become COs in another uboat.

I know maybe I am daydreaming here but I guess is not a very difficult thing to implement and would be nice for the realism of the game. Medals are really nicely introduced with the ceremonies and I really like them (so far I am in my second campaign with an ek2, ek1 captain trying to get his ritterkreutz sooner that later) but I miss the option to be promoted.

In any case thanks for reading and to the developers, thanks for this oustanding game. I hope you keep the good work up and polish a few things, being in such case the best sub sim ever made.

[--==Thelamastichat==--]

I agree that it would be a another great progression system !

[Lowenbrau]

Be careful what you wish for. From personal experience in the US military, I had a spectacular career and got promoted relatively fast. The problem is, I got promoted up to the point that they stuck me behind a desk in HQ. If you wish to see your Uboat captain promoted, it could be the end of the game for that character if he reaches a certain rank. I recommend not promoting the character since it is unnecessary for gameplay and campaign progression.

[Jubyndal]

I agree that there should be some promotion to a higher rank during the career. In exchange for sunk tonnage or other spectacular merits. However, in order not to end up behind a desk in a flotilla, it should be limited to 3-4 ranks: Leutnant zur See, Oberleutnant zur See, Kapitanleutnant and Korvettenkapitan. This could be connected with some additional possibilities in the headquarters.

Besides, there should be only 4 officers on board for the VIIC type. The radioman/sonar operator and the navigator should not be officers. The first one should be a junior NCO. The second one - a senior NCO.

P.S. It would be good if you moved this discussion to the general feedback section. Maybe the developers will read this.

[Gelete Rojo]

Hi, I do not know how to move the discussion to the general feedback, or you mean I should copy the post in that forum?

[Jubyndal]

Indeed, there is probably no way to move this entry to general feedback... It probably has to stay here. Maybe the developers will read this and react. Let's hope so. You have a very interesting idea for these promotions. Even in board games on this topic (The Hunters, The Hunted, Silent Victory or Raiders of the deep) something like this exists. In a digital game it would be cool too. Best regards.

[grei209ks]

That's a very good idea. I second that. However, I think that it will not be possible to realize it, since it was not laid out at the beginning of the game. The mechanics of the game itself does not provide for it. Especially since you can choose (add) two more officers during the game. And with the appropriate mod there can be 17 officers (together with the commander). As already mentioned on this thread, the submarine crew consisted of only 4 officers, 4 senior non-commissioned officers (Oberfeldfebel) and about 10 - 12 non-commissioned officers. Each naturally had his own rank, depending on his position and length of service. Which of the 20 or so crew members you want to add during the game is up to you, not the AI. Accordingly, you are the one who should assign the ranks.
But the idea itself is very much to my liking. in SH-3 this function was partially realized. In the game UBOAT, unfortunately, the very mechanics of the game to achieve this is impossible. So you will have to give positions and ranks to officers (non-commissioned officers) yourself.

[Gelete Rojo]

Yep, you are ver likely right abut crew and oficer ranks, it could be really hard or even impossible to implement. It´s a shame since it was a real situation that hapened oftenly to german and american captains in the war. In fact, several men safe their lives after being transfered before the last patrol of their submarines, like leutnants zur seee Herbert Werner (autor of Iron Coffins), and Raimund Weissbach (Torpedo officer of the U20 who sank the Lusitania in 1915) or Richard O'Kane (medal of honor recipient and former XO of the ill fated USS Wahoo).

But I think that we shuold get some sort of promotion system for at least the Co (Player). I think this should be done easily. many other gams had this feature. Simple rank structure like this:
Leutnant zur See before 1943 leutnant zur see only served as Xo or officers in the submarines, but when the war adanced and several officers were killed or captured, many junior leutnants received the command of their own subs)
Oberleutnant zur See (after may be just one succesful patrol).
Kapitanleutnant (several succesful patrols).
Korvettenkapitan (more succsful patrol and an ammount minimal tonnage).
Fregattenkapitan (You could receive an option to accept the rank and retire or continue till the end of the war, as Lowenbrau said before to be force to the retirement could be a bad idea but since many of the best commaders ended the war wiith commands in the Flotillas and this rank, would be nice to be able to get promoted this high.

Enlace a sitio web [uboat.net]

[grei209ks]

In addition to this topic. If you want to use the mod that increases the number of crew, please note that the added crew members, regardless of position and rank (officers or non-commissioned officers), will rest in the officers' compartment, where only 4 beds are used for sleeping (as it is provided by the developers). Personally, I manage to make a proper sleep schedule for officers (non-commissioned officers) if their number does not exceed 13 people (together with the commander).

[Jubyndal]

Everything you wrote guys is true. You're right. I'm with you guys. It's very interesting and that's how it should be present in the game. If Uboat wants to be considered a German World War II submarine simulator, then the entire crew, their ranks and functions on board, division of duties, animations of going to rest - everything requires modification and work from the developers. It can't be like patching everything with mods. But I always appreciate the work of modders and I count on more and more of them. In general, the game is good but when it comes to realism, it's not there yet. This page you linked to - developers should draw a lot of information from it as well as from our comments. Players who are not familiar with the subject will be delighted with the game. But those like us who have read something, watched something, are interested in it, quickly catch its shortcomings.

[Gelete Rojo]

Not there yet but it has much potential and already delivers a lot.

Every now and then I discover one of this games that I keep on playing for years. Back in the early nineties I enjoyed Civilization, Gunship 2000 (played in the eighties in its Gunship 1 C64 version) and then Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe, Red Baron 3D and the Silent Hunter series among some others.

UBOAT is a fantastic sim, but it needs a bit more of polishing to become even better.

One of the corners I think need to be trimmed is the lack of promotions in the game. However I really like it a lot, it´s a 8,5/9 out of 10 for me (and along with Wings over the Flanders Fields and American Truck Simulator one of my three favourite sim games right know).

If I am asking or proposing these ideas is not as a complain but because I think that a few touches here and there would make out of this game an classic like the masterpieces I talked before.

[Jubyndal]

"UBOAT is a fantastic sim, but it needs a bit more of polishing to become even better" - I generally think so too.

P.S. In the old days I played a lot of Silent Service 2, Gunship 2000, F19 and F117A on Amiga. On PC I played mainly Silent Hunter 1 and 3, a little less in 2, 4 and 5 parts of the series, because they were not fully developed for the premieres. I also like the Civilization series.

[wolf310ii]

Originally posted by Gelete Rojo:

In the real IIWW most captains had the rank of oberleutnant zur see (1939 ) or leutnant zur see (1942 and later)

There were only a few commanders who got their first command as a Leutnant z.S., most commanders didnt got a command befor after promoted to Oberleutnant z.S.

According to this list https://uboat.net/men/commanders/ there were:
4 Leutnant z.S.
625 Oberleutnant z.S.
517 Kaleun
177 Korvettenkapitän
48 Fregattenkäpitän
22 Kapitän

Of course some started a rang lower than in the list, but that most commanders were OLt or even Lt isnt true.

Regarding to officers, most officers in uboats attached ranks of fahrnich zur see, oberfahrnich zur see and leutnant zur see. (some engineers were oberleutnant zur see but is not necessary to include every single detail in the game).

Thats also not true. The LI had to be an officer to become LI (a Fähnrich is on the same rang level as an Oberbootsmann), if he was Fähnrich (Ing) on board, then as LI trainee or Obermaschinist, not as LI. It wasnt uncommon that the LI had the same rang as the commander.
Fähnrich served as WO trainee (additional to the I and IIWO) or IIWO.
So most officers were Lt or OLt

[Gelete Rojo]

Hi wolf, thanks for your correction about the LI officers, did not know that. I like a lot this possition many of them died when sinking the vessel to avoid it to fall into enemy hands. Last wek I read the last living LI died in 2023, he was the Li of the famous U96, his name was Friedrich Grade.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Grade

Most commanders were OltZS and Kptt, roughly the 75% of all according to the data from U Boat Net, you are right I swap the ranks of leutnant and kapitanleutnant, since as I had said in a previuos post, most of the leutnants zur see did not command any sub during the war, just a few of them at the very end (may be there were some exceptions before but they very few and in some cases they were "moving" u boats from different bases but they still are included in the U boat stats).

Some leutnant zur see who commanded a sub were Kurt Braun and Ludwig-Ferdinand von Friedeburg (son of the admiral). The latter was just moving the uboat from Lorient to Germany while the former had a real combat patrol assigned, but they were very few as you correctly said. Both men are also considered the youngest german captains to ever command an uboat.

The most important ranks in the war that should be used in the game were
1.- Oberleutnant ZS.
2- Kapitanleutnant.
3.- Korvettenkapitan.