Deck Gun Optic?

[Luftwaffles]

Bought the game a little while ago, loving it so far, and for a EAB it is remarkably polished. I've done a few searches and haven't seen anything in regards to this yet.

One thing I find disappointing and immersion breaking with the game is that there is no proper deck gun sight for long range shooting. This is fine in 1939 as merchants are by and large not armed, but as the war progresses i'm definitely not going to want to get so close! I find it disappointing to have to use the cheesy 3rd person "Sight" or the literal musket sight on the top of the gun barrel.

Please tell me this is going to be sorted sooner or later?

[captainpanda34]

this was already discussed somewhere else, and indeed +1

[athenian]

I think it's been mentioned before, the devs should be aware, and perhaps they'll fix it.

[zerocold]

One of the game drawback!
I hope they fix this.Silent Hunter 3,4 really a pleasure using deckgun

[Armant]

But do they had a gun optic during WW2? Beside of fact that attacking armed merchant ships using deck gun was strictly forbidden by the BdU in 1941 and the gun itself was completely removed from U-boats in 1942 (during Brückenumbau upgrade program) so I don't see any point of using it against any armed ship in game that is supposed to be a simulator.

Gun optic is rather vulnerable equipment and it can't survive any deeper diving - how do you imagine using it on an U-boat? Dismantling it before every dive (so wasting time on surface to do that)? And after going into surface instaling and calibrating it again before engaging the enemy? I don't know how much time (and how many shells) is required to properly calibrate a naval gun optic after mounting but comparing to hand gun optic calibration I can imagine it would take few hours on perfectly calm sea... good luck doing that in the middle of the Atlantic...

Also U-boat was a small ship with really poor seakeeping abilities and using its deck gun was extremely difficult in any distances longer than few cables - why do you want an optic on a gun which even small wave makes aiming with it almost impossible even without any optic?

Considering all of this I don't think that Germans used optics on deck gun during WW2 - but this is only my opinion since I couldn't find any information about U-boat deck gun optics...

[garytwinem]

There's a binocular like sighting affair mounted on the side of the deck gun:
https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=217156

But this game dosen't model it so far.

[Armant]

Publicado originalmente por garytwinem:

There's a binocular like sighting affair mounted on the side of the deck gun:
https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=217156

But this game dosen't model it so far.

This thread is only "speculation" (and author points it in the first post) about that optic being mounted on an U-boat deck gun. There are no photos proving it or any link to official document that could confirm it.
Also by simply looking at this optic (even if it looks quite sturdy) I really doubt it could survive water pressure at depths 150-200m.

And this still doesn't answer the most important question - what is the point of having gun optic on ship with so bad seakeeping abilities that even on low wave sea using a deck gun is a rollercoaster at any distance greater than few cables? Against unarmed ships you can easily go as close as possible and sink them. Against armed merch ships? From historical point of view they had guns with higher caliber (usually 120mm+), so higher range and, because of them being much more seaworthy and stable gun platform, like 10 times better accuracy. Also an armed merch ship could sink the U-boat with a single hit near-by, while U-boat 8.8 gun had to hit the merch ship multiple times (10-20 hits) to even start thinking about sinking it. So from the pure historical point of view (and game called "simulator" should be as close to history as possible) engaging an artillery duel with an armed merch ship (no matter what distance) is an 100% suicide...

[Booze_Rooster]

Just a hunch, but things as sensitive as optics would be on a removable mount. Kind of like a mortar sight. You'd zero the sight to the gun on the surface beforehand then remove the sight and place it in a carrying case for protection. Probably assigned to the leader of the gun crew. Usually the 2WO if memory serves.

If you were holing an unarmed merchantman the sight wouldn't be needed. Musket sights it is. If you were shelling a target at range, you'd bring the sight up and clamp it on.

[Booze_Rooster]

http://www.archive.zeiss.de/zeig.FAU?sid=AF0AF16421&dm=4&ind=1&ipos=U-Boot-Luftzielfernrohr+8+mit+seitlichem+Einblick

I was right!

[Luftwaffles]

I mean there objectively ARE sights on the side of the deck gun, as accurately modelled in game. The quibbles about it "Not being practical" to use said optics are irrelevant. They were equipped (presumably) as standard, and as such, should (and hopefully will) be modelled in game.

Booze: Your link is broken(?)

[Booze_Rooster]

Click to go to the external site. It's the Zeiss virtual museum. The link will bring you to a German language catalog item page. Click the box at the bottom and it'll load a nice image of a deck gun optical sight as a separated unit.

[SlyRedGuy]

Publicado originalmente por Luftwaffles:

I mean there objectively ARE sights on the side of the deck gun, as accurately modelled in game. The quibbles about it "Not being practical" to use said optics are irrelevant. They were equipped (presumably) as standard, and as such, should (and hopefully will) be modelled in game.

Booze: Your link is broken(?)

AMEN Luftwaffles and Booze..../......this game in on a sliding scale, to each his own "Armant"

[Dewgle]

Publicado originalmente por Armant:

But do they had a gun optic during WW2?

Yes

Publicado originalmente por Armant:

There are no photos proving it or any link to official document that could confirm it.

You didn't look very hard :C
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/PXPPv2uSXOhiOH_lyQIIoN58kqj8HIZYelG_s2vdarWO0IPjwZRVDzg5UcDasClwarwRVL-g1EeNdFI-JG3R9oe1rNGG7Ucux8y0LifXqhdtkEqqeIz4zdfdylo8_90

Publicado originalmente por Armant:

And this still doesn't answer the most important question - what is the point of having gun optic on ship with so bad seakeeping abilities that even on low wave sea using a deck gun is a rollercoaster at any distance greater than few cables?

Because you can't aim the deck gun with a view-finder/quick sight

You can't think of that metal ring as an 'iron sight' like you would with a rifle. It's a view-finder, like the kind you'd find on a telescope if you ever used one as a kid. It's just a simple ring to help you quickly bring the gun onto target before you switch to the binocular sight. It was not meant for aiming.

As you can see in this graphic https://imgur.com/Gfu8R5g
The controls to operate the windage and elevation are located on the sides of the weapon. The operator would not be able to turn the gun with the handles and stretch his head all the way over to look through the view finder at the same time.

Here's an example of how the gun was normally operated
https://i.imgur.com/ActLhmz.jpg

Publicado originalmente por Armant:

Gun optic is rather vulnerable equipment and it can't survive any deeper diving - how do you imagine using it on an U-boat? Dismantling it before every dive (so wasting time on surface to do that)? And after going into surface instaling and calibrating it again before engaging the enemy?

It was either filled with clear oil to give it greater resistance to water pressure or it was detachable. I'm asking a few friends who know more about it than I do.

But bottom line is that all deck guns had the binocular aiming sights pictured in the links above, and these binocular sights were the primary means of aiming the weapon, whether the target was 500 or 5,000 meters away.

Publicado originalmente por Armant:

And this still doesn't answer the most important question - what is the point of having gun optic on ship with so bad seakeeping abilities that even on low wave sea using a deck gun is a rollercoaster at any distance greater than few cables?

Also, don't tell the American sub crews that, they scored a lot of kills with the deck gun in the Pacific.

[Dewgle]

Doesn't look like they removed them from the deck gun when diving, so I guess they were designed to be water and depth resistant
https://youtu.be/PlpqoTPfo2g

[SlyRedGuy]

GOOD work McDewgle

[FvJ]

Nice catch, McDewgle

I hate so much how it's done actually, a working binocular sight is on my top proirity list for B129, even if it will be only really useful for the first years of the war, finger crossed!