Tank Crew Management?

[kcg_lol]

First of all I have to say that i really like the gameplay and the basic idea of this game. At least from what I've seen in videos on YouTube. However, I simply have to admit that I am not a submarine guy. I don't dislike them i any way, but I just find other machines (and especially tanks) way more interesting. That's why I'm hesitant to buy this game.
Now, since I already expressed my liking of the game's principle and tanks, I wanted to ask how the community and perhaps even the game's devs feel about a similar type of game, but with a WW2 tank crew? I feel like such a game would be the first of its kind (so far I've not come across any like it at least) and a nice addition to the series (Uboat and the upcoming Aircraft Carrier Survival).

[Bobby]

Faces of War,Company of Heroes - do a superb Tank and general soldier/crew sim. But the danger of a tank crew is it's one or two hits and it's game over, inc your crew.
Here you can 'cat and mouse' your way out of situations. The other factor with a tank crew is the unbalanced nature of warfare. German tanks would pummel the allies with only a few exceptions, but that's why you had infantry to 'protect' the vulnerable aspects of tanks from enemy anti-tank infantry
Tanks never went out themselves and certainly wouldn't deliberately go urban for the dangers of anti-tank weaponry from corners windows and ruins. My best ever tank sim was M1 Tank Platoon 2. If that was brought up to modern hardware......drool. https://youtu.be/hIhN0VEX570 sound on :)
But you've got to inc infantry in a tank sim otherwise it's going to be very dull. Most battles took place at range anyway and never even seen who killed them and likewise did the killing!

[Dazven]

I love armored warfare as well, but I don't really see how this could translate to armored vehicles at all. A few things I think would be a major problem in translating Uboat to lets say "Panzer" as the name of the game to keep the same naming convention:

• The crew isn't going to be moving roles (Except for circumstances where one crewman may be dead)
  
• No real delegation of officer or crew roles
  
• No scheduling
  
• Management minimal of the tank and crew
  
• Missions aren't a long autonomous patrol and to be interesting will probably be limited to battles/skirmishes unless you want to sit on a train or drive cross country for hundreds of miles (If you want to invoke fast travel or skip time then might as well just go play IL-2 Tank Crew, T-34 vs Tiger, etc as travel is meaningless)
  
• Lack of potential mission variety
  
• In all likelihood there will probably be games out there with better armored combat making the game lack all around. Tank combat is a very difficult task and if combat is the major selling point of "Panzer" unlike Uboat then it would be a very hard sell.
  
• Etc.

The best you will get in that regard is going to be something akin to Bomber Crew and that was pretty simplified (There is a game similar, but I honestly don't remember the name). Even with that game its gameplay is far less interesting than its inspiration.

A great idea, but I can't really see a good implementation of this and retain any likeness in gameplay to Uboat.

Edit: Found the game

https://store.steampowered.com/app/814740/Armored_Battle_Crew_World_War_1__Tank_Warfare_and_Crew_Management_Simulator/

[kcg_lol]

Originally posted by zoo:

Faces of War,Company of Heroes - do a superb Tank and general soldier/crew sim. But the danger of a tank crew is it's one or two hits and it's game over, inc your crew.
Here you can 'cat and mouse' your way out of situations. The other factor with a tank crew is the unbalanced nature of warfare. German tanks would pummel the allies with only a few exceptions, but that's why you had infantry to 'protect' the vulnerable aspects of tanks from enemy anti-tank infantry
Tanks never went out themselves and certainly wouldn't deliberately go urban for the dangers of anti-tank weaponry from corners windows and ruins. My best ever tank sim was M1 Tank Platoon 2. If that was brought up to modern hardware......drool. https://youtu.be/hIhN0VEX570 sound on :)
But you've got to inc infantry in a tank sim otherwise it's going to be very dull. Most battles took place at range anyway and never even seen who killed them and likewise did the killing!

Originally posted by LCDR. Holmes (Daz):

I love armored warfare as well, but I don't really see how this could translate to armored vehicles at all. A few things I think would be a major problem in translating Uboat to lets say "Panzer" as the name of the game to keep the same naming convention:

• The crew isn't going to be moving roles (Except for circumstances where one crewman may be dead)
  
• No real delegation of officer or crew roles
  
• No scheduling
  
• Management minimal of the tank and crew
  
• Missions aren't a long autonomous patrol and to be interesting will probably be limited to battles/skirmishes unless you want to sit on a train or drive cross country for hundreds of miles (If you want to invoke fast travel or skip time then might as well just go play IL-2 Tank Crew, T-34 vs Tiger, etc as travel is meaningless)
  
• Lack of potential mission variety
  
• In all likelihood there will probably be games out there with better armored combat making the game lack all around. Tank combat is a very difficult task and if combat is the major selling point of "Panzer" unlike Uboat then it would be a very hard sell.
  
• Etc.

The best you will get in that regard is going to be something akin to Bomber Crew and that was pretty simplified (There is a game similar, but I honestly don't remember the name). Even with that game its gameplay is far less interesting than its inspiration.

A great idea, but I can't really see a good implementation of this and retain any likeness in gameplay to Uboat.

Edit: Found the game

https://store.steampowered.com/app/814740/Armored_Battle_Crew_World_War_1__Tank_Warfare_and_Crew_Management_Simulator/

I absolutely agree to both of you. I guess I was a bit narrow minded and didn't think about the many factors that would need to be included in terms of realism. The game would probably really not be fun to play and you'd have to replace crew members after almost every hit. I'll have a look at both of your games and may be even get Uboat since I really like the idea. A huge thanks to both of you for your very detailed answers!

[Bobby]

Hey, it’s good to think ‘out the box’, good simmers do! That’s how the likes of UBoat appear. If you want to * as near as command a tank in real life* then I suggest Arma 2 or 3. Which are the best military simulations on the market, modelling true(est) ballistics and penetrating values in games. The internal vehicles are really well done inc helos, tanks, weapons, tactics and just the huge scale that you fight in. If you’ve seen the night firing from the gulf war - tracer, ricochets etc then this is for you.
https://youtu.be/S1b8_BOI_q8

[El Rushbo]

It isn't a tank sim, but Bomber Crew follows a similar principle.

[Jackrabbit_V6/ RSProduxx]

i guess with ground forces, for an officer as we pretend to be in Uboat, it´s more about managing a company or bataillon rather than a single vehicle´s crew... in some strategy games even that is kinda possible since you can assign or unassign soldiers to a vehicle, but more than that? i doubt it would make for good gameplay after all...

tank sims exist, but the "management" usually doesn´t go further than giving directions, maybe manually load ammo or designate a target... because there´s probably not much more to simulate than that :)

@zoo yeah, Arma Tanks can give you a good commander feeling for a tank or even a tank platoon... but it´s still not so much on the micro level as in uboat or such :)

you can tell the driver where to go, can spot targets for the gunner, but it doesn´t go much further :)

[Bobby]

Originally posted by El Rushbo:

It isn't a tank sim, but Bomber Crew follows a similar principle.

Or the best bomber sim made, B17-2 The Mighty Eighth. Full crew management; full renaming, skills, squadron control inc target, waypoints, bomb load, engine management (individual down to feathering) full damage to the Fortress, parts blown off, see through body work, fires, injured crew/ dead crew/ panicking crew! Bailout the whole crew, crash land, fly it, man all guns, inc Norden bomb sight, bomb drop intervals and you can even bomb rage UBoat pens at Brest :)

Yeah, your right Jackrabbit. The best part of Arma is controlling all aspects of a squadron, just that it’s the only real sim you can jump into an drive/fly/swim and mini subs everything.

[kcg_lol]

So Ive come across an interesting game that's called "Gunner, HEAT, PC!". It is currently in development but it looks promising although it is very (and i mean VERY) alpha ^^ . Here is a link to some pre-alpha footage if you're interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn-HhiB5HWw

[Kawira]

i was thinking about the same, imo this type of game would be very good for tanks (but of course in bit different tone).

First of all depending on the rank our tank commander would be either part of tank column or commander of it. In 2nd case choosing the safest path and making decisions (like engage that TD or order retreat) would give some nice, memorable experiences.

The management of crews would be mostly focus on in-between mission activities and combat itself rather than cycling them on duties but keeping your crew balanced between combat readiness and high morale would be interesting and crucial for spotting ambushes or even performing well during mission. Also let's not forget things like maintaining tanks (often with scarce supplies) and decision making for fights themselves. Positioning tank and smart advancing is what makes crew alive one.

Players should still be warned that tanker life is very RNGish and often short tho. Also I think that there shouldn't be mission picking (something which I dislike in Uboat anyway) but still would be nice to encourage players to retreat if they feel they endangered. Tanks are very precious.

Nice potential for DLCs for Tank Destroyer or maybe even half-track/APC (depending on timeline) crew.

[Dazven]

Originally posted by kcg_lol:

So Ive come across an interesting game that's called "Gunner, HEAT, PC!". It is currently in development but it looks promising although it is very (and i mean VERY) alpha ^^ . Here is a link to some pre-alpha footage if you're interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn-HhiB5HWw

Awesome! Thanks for sharing that.

I do hope that interiors will be a thing in the future and the possibility for modding is there to make it more akin to Steel Beasts (Granted that would be difficult, maybe a modern tank game with the complexity of Steel Armor: Blaze of War).

Either way, I'm excited to see serious tank games that aren't War Thunder come about.

[Bobby]

Looking at it (it's early) but i would play M1-TP2 over it. It has detailed interiors and the ability to switch and control platoons and call in arty inc airstrikes. It's not going to be ready for a long,long time. Also, we've had the shrapnel and ballistic damage vectors in 1C games and IL-2. When you playing in a tank shrapnel - or more importantly, Molten metal isn't going to be on your 'wonder if' list.

[Severus]

hold on , before any of that we need Napoleonic naval warfare and Ancient naval warfare with trireme's

[Dazven]

Originally posted by Severus:

hold on , before any of that we need Napoleonic naval warfare and Ancient naval warfare with trireme's

Hey now, don't tease me with all that. Though not the exact same I'd love to see an early-mid age of sail period game.

[Kawira]

Originally posted by LCDR. Holmes (Daz):

Originally posted by Severus:

hold on , before any of that we need Napoleonic naval warfare and Ancient naval warfare with trireme's

Hey now, don't tease me with all that. Though not the exact same I'd love to see an early-mid age of sail period game.

There is Naval Action but it's kinda meh mmo

[Dazven]

Originally posted by Kawira:

Originally posted by LCDR. Holmes (Daz):

Hey now, don't tease me with all that. Though not the exact same I'd love to see an early-mid age of sail period game.

There is Naval Action but it's kinda meh mmo

Yea, I downloaded it again the other month to see if it improved and was pretty disappointed. It had so much potential when it first came out and they just said screw you to everyone looking for a PvE experience.