map contacts ON/OFF

[Stoerte]

I think this is the single most deceiding factor when it comes to difficulty. With map contacts on manual targeting is pretty easy and you will hit almost every shoot if you're not completly new to sub games. I think this should influence the difficulty setting much more than 4%, more like 40%. It's a total different game with or without map contatcs. For me it's much more difficult (and not for relaxing gameplay), but also much more intense.

[Bob Green]

I agree!

[Alex Paen (ljekio)]

I think the percentages are not the main thing here, but our pleasure from the game process. For example, the no spoilers mod makes the game much more difficult than the game without the mod, but we don't get a single additional percent of difficulty for this.

[er.tz]

and the second most deciding is own sub off of the map, but for that a mod is needed (real navigation) and is not alreasdy updated.

[XLjedi]

There are tools available, with the 100% settings that allow for pinpoint accuracy in determining target true course (TC).

I actually think not having the updates on makes attack plotting a lot easier because you no longer have a bunch of icons and overlays popping-up messages as you mouse-over and draw on the map.

Given this, I think the settings are appropriate. Turning off updates puts you in a mode of play where you have the *option* to reveal your targets with game tools OR you can test various TMA methods for your own enjoyment.

[Tikigod]

Originally posted by XLjedi:

There are tools available, with the 100% settings that allow for pinpoint accuracy in determining target true course (TC).

I actually think not having the updates on makes attacking plotting a lot easier because you no longer have a bunch of icons and overlays popping-up messages as you mouse-over and draw on the map.

Given this, I think the settings are appropriate. Turning off updates puts you in a mode of play where you have the *option* to reveal your targets with game tools OR you can test various TMA methods for your own enjoyment.

There are icons?

I just get the typical hydrophone blue projection of estimated direction/distance, some basic information about distance and the only time I get any visual icons or representation of the ship I'm hunting is when I'm already on top of it and ready to set up my fire solution.

But maybe that's more due to how I schedule my crew and pretty much do everything by hydrophone and then finish off with the attack periscope once I've performed the intercept.

I never really have anyone visually scouting around me as it seems kind of redundant. :\

[Alex Paen (ljekio)]

Originally posted by XLjedi:

There are tools available, with the 100% settings that allow for pinpoint accuracy in determining target true course (TC).

I actually think not having the updates on makes attacking plotting a lot easier because you no longer have a bunch of icons and overlays popping-up messages as you mouse-over and draw on the map.

Given this, I think the settings are appropriate. Turning off updates puts you in a mode of play where you have the *option* to reveal your targets with game tools OR you can test various TMA methods for your own enjoyment.

you won't need it at all, since there is a course interception (which at your zero speed will show the exact position of the enemy), there are silhouettes of ships in any fog and a click on the contacts icon on the right either centers the map on the ship or gives it to you in the periscope, you only have to press C and the periscope will turn there itself. We are freed from all these tricks with the help of the no spoilers mod. And I would not compare the difficulty obtained in this way with the usual game mode with contacts.

[XLjedi]

Originally posted by Tikigod:

Originally posted by XLjedi:

There are tools available, with the 100% settings that allow for pinpoint accuracy in determining target true course (TC).

I actually think not having the updates on makes attacking plotting a lot easier because you no longer have a bunch of icons and overlays popping-up messages as you mouse-over and draw on the map.

Given this, I think the settings are appropriate. Turning off updates puts you in a mode of play where you have the *option* to reveal your targets with game tools OR you can test various TMA methods for your own enjoyment.

There are icons?

I just get the typical hydrophone blue projection of estimated direction/distance, some basic information about distance and the only time I get any visual icons or representation of the ship I'm hunting is when I'm already on top of it and ready to set up my fire solution.

But maybe that's more due to how I schedule my crew and pretty much do everything by hydrophone and then finish off with the attack periscope once I've performed the intercept.

I never really have anyone visually scouting around me as it seems kind of redundant. :\

When I tried to use map contacts, those hydrophone cone "icons" or whatever you want to call them "map objects" perhaps? ...would popup windows to relentlessly block my view all the time while plotting. The ship icons themselves would also get in my way.

[Tikigod]

Originally posted by XLjedi:

Originally posted by Tikigod:

There are icons?

I just get the typical hydrophone blue projection of estimated direction/distance, some basic information about distance and the only time I get any visual icons or representation of the ship I'm hunting is when I'm already on top of it and ready to set up my fire solution.

But maybe that's more due to how I schedule my crew and pretty much do everything by hydrophone and then finish off with the attack periscope once I've performed the intercept.

I never really have anyone visually scouting around me as it seems kind of redundant. :\

When I tried to use map contacts, those hydrophone cone "icons" or whatever you want to call them "map objects" perhaps? ...would popup windows to relentlessly block my view all the time while plotting. The ship icons themselves would also get in my way.

By the time I have ship icons on my map, the ships only like 4-5km away at which point I'm intending to kill it or run very soon lol.

And I see what you mean in calling them symbols now as any other word seems to fall a bit short lol. Yeah hovering over the hydrophone cone does pop-up a window, though perhaps a recent addition that wasn't there before is the option to hold down a button that removes the window so you can plot on the map etc.

Other than rarely to sanity check my approximate distance calculations to make sure the fact that rough distance is increasing or decreasing like I think it is, I can't remember the time I actually paid any attention to the information in that window, as it's all pretty basic information and things you can quickly get yourself with just a few map plots.

Maybe it's time I consider removing map contacts in a new campaign... hmmm.....

[Stoerte]

Maybe I'm missing something, but having a ship icon on the map allows me to exacly measure its speed, course and distance. So as I said in my OP, its really easy to hit and feels a little like cheating. scoring five hits and sinking four ships with 22000 tons (one torp was a dud) on the first Typ II patrol just feels too much.
But when I have to do this by myself using the stadimeter to measure the distance, the margin for error is much bigger. Wrong distance means I'll miscalculate its course and speed and my torpedo will miss.
I'd really like to start a campaign with this setting, but despite the fact that I've some expierence with sub games, this is still very challenging to me. I hope I'll achieve the required tonnage singkings.
I once played a SH4 TMO RSRD campaign by doing this with all contacts off and every hit felt like a real victory.

[Cellar_Cat]

I'd like an alternative where it's possible to have them automatically marked, but not constantly live updated. That would save me the hassle of manually adding and removing (as many) icons but without it being so unrealistic. It would just be implied that someone was noting their position every so often.

That is how I am handling it anyway except that it must always be manual.

[Bob Green]

Originally posted by er.tz:

and the second most deciding is own sub off of the map, but for that a mod is needed (real navigation) and is not alreasdy updated.

Not realistic. The skipper always knows where he is on the map wich is represented by the ship-icon. Unless there's a week long overcast he'll never be lost.

[er.tz]

Originally posted by Bob Green:

Originally posted by er.tz:

and the second most deciding is own sub off of the map, but for that a mod is needed (real navigation) and is not alreasdy updated.

Not realistic. The skipper always knows where he is on the map wich is represented by the ship-icon. Unless there's a week long overcast he'll never be lost.

Not really, They cant magically know where they are. They always have to do procedures like work with the odometer, sextant, check sky, natural geographical points sighting etc.., The mod just simulates that. You can know where you are only if some prerequisites are meet (the use of sextant for example, but cant be used if there is storm, thick mist etc ).

Also when you are underwater there is no trinket to know the location, in fact while submerged the location of the submarine is one of the hardest things to track. There is a lot of workload (plotting) to do to know exactly the position. And if you dont know the position of your own sub (even for a few meters) torpedos will fail.

So if your own sub is not in the map and you use real navigation mod, you have to use the odometer, sextant, compass and plot your way specially underwater. So it is more realistic (and harder)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k29YksvxVOc&t=226s

[XLjedi]

Originally posted by er.tz:

Originally posted by Bob Green:

Not realistic. The skipper always knows where he is on the map wich is represented by the ship-icon. Unless there's a week long overcast he'll never be lost.

Not really, They cant magically know where they are. They always have to do procedures like work with the odometer, sextant, check sky, natural geographical points sighting etc.., The mod just simulates that. You can know where you are only if some prerequisites are meet (the use of sextant for example, but cant be used if there is storm, thick mist etc ).

Also when you are underwater there is no trinket to know the location, in fact while submerged the location of the submarine is one of the hardest thing to track. There is a lot of workload (plotting) to do to know exactly the position. And if you dont know the position of your own sub torpedos will fail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k29YksvxVOc&t=226s

My hats off to those who would play with a static map and no indication whatsoever on OwnShip position. I barely have the patience to wait out a manual plot of a target's TC using some method of TMA. If I had to track OwnShip at the same time, I think I'd have to tap out.

[er.tz]

Originally posted by XLjedi:

Originally posted by er.tz:

Not really, They cant magically know where they are. They always have to do procedures like work with the odometer, sextant, check sky, natural geographical points sighting etc.., The mod just simulates that. You can know where you are only if some prerequisites are meet (the use of sextant for example, but cant be used if there is storm, thick mist etc ).

Also when you are underwater there is no trinket to know the location, in fact while submerged the location of the submarine is one of the hardest thing to track. There is a lot of workload (plotting) to do to know exactly the position. And if you dont know the position of your own sub torpedos will fail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k29YksvxVOc&t=226s

My hats off to those who would play with a static map and no indication whatsoever on OwnShip position. I barely have the patience to wait out a manual plot of a target's TC using some method of TMA. If I had to track OwnShip at the same time, I think I'd have to tap out.

Before the recent changes of "no map contacts" in the core game, the real navigation mod has been the only chance to play without map contacts. The game didnt even have a compass so the compass mod was made to support real navigation mod. Recently the game has added an official compass too.

[XLjedi]

Originally posted by er.tz:

Before the recent changes of "no map contacts" in the core game, the real navigation mod has been the only chance to play without map contacts. The game didnt even have a compass so the compass mod was made to support real navigation mod. Recently the game has added an official compass too.

Didn't find that I used it much prior to that update. I post it up to my dashboard UI, but never really comes into play for me.