- Fix: It was too easy to sink ships with a 20 mm gun

[Stefan A. Höllwarth]

Thank you very much. I can't sink a simple freighter with 1600 rounds of 20mm HE. What where you thinking?
Can anyone even imagine what 1600 rounds of 20mm do to anything humans built?

[XLjedi]

I think we'll be OK.

[CyberTrapper]

It's also useless to shoot at planes now?

[Nazarene]

What are YOU thinking? The 20mm is an ANT-AIRCRAFT weapon. It could be useful vs small craft as well, but it seems that folks who are not widely read about submarine warfare in WWII are misunderstanding that weapon and its applications. People that are using it to sink ships are not using it historically. You could indeed put a thousand holes in a freighter's hull with it, and watch it sink- a week later. It's like trying to kill a moose with a sewing needle. Why any sub skipper would want to hang out on the surface- against an enemy who largely controls the air- for the length of time it would take do do any meaningful damage to a large ship is beyond me. Just don't do it. That is why Germaniawerft put an 88 on your deck. If you have to shoot a freighter, shoot it with that. That's what it was intended for.

[XLjedi]

Originally posted by CyberTrapper:

It's also useless to shoot at planes now?

I shot down several this morning with HE rounds. I imagine the 20mm will also still be effective against the little MTB fast attack boats.

[CyberTrapper]

Originally posted by XLjedi:

I shot down several this morning

So this was before the patch?

[XLjedi]

Originally posted by CyberTrapper:

Originally posted by XLjedi:

I shot down several this morning

So this was before the patch?

It was the first game I played after the patch, which was this morning by my timezone. I installed patch 11, started a brand new career, port was under attack... I shot down like 3 or 4 planes on the way out of the harbor. The 20mm works fine.

[VanZan_75]

https://www.tankarchives.ca/p/demarre-calculator.html

https://www.thefabricator.com/thefabricator/article/shopmanagement/a-parting-of-the-inclined-ways

To save the read ; Oerlikon 20mm gun = 30mm to 40mm penetration @ 400 mts to 0 mts .

Modern commercial ship hulls = 14mm to 19 mm ( modern tankers double skinned ) .

[Bird Face]

LOL I've been racking up like 117000 tons a patrol because of the 20mm. It did feel unrealistic. The guns still work great on aircraft and coasters but a large merchant can eat alot of rounds. I used to surface in fog right next to them and sink them before the destroyers could get me. Seriously, if the 20mm's had been that good subs would have a special tower with a 20mm turret just to attack from periscope depth. So I'm ok with being forced to use torpedos like a normal sub.

[GrinderX9]

Thank you for this. I could sink a ship with half a clip of ammo, it even felt redundent to have a deck gun.

[Stefan A. Höllwarth]

Originally posted by Bird Face:

LOL I've been racking up like 117000 tons a patrol because of the 20mm. It did feel unrealistic. The guns still work great on aircraft and coasters but a large merchant can eat alot of rounds. I used to surface in fog right next to them and sink them before the destroyers could get me. Seriously, if the 20mm's had been that good subs would have a special tower with a 20mm turret just to attack from periscope depth. So I'm ok with being forced to use torpedos like a normal sub.

The 20mm is that good. You use Torpedos against enemies who can fight back...

[Stefan A. Höllwarth]

Originally posted by Nazarene:

What are YOU thinking? The 20mm is an ANT-AIRCRAFT weapon. It could be useful vs small craft as well, but it seems that folks who are not widely read about submarine warfare in WWII are misunderstanding that weapon and it's applications. People that are using it to sink ships are not using it historically. You could indeed put a thousand holes in a freighter's hull with it, and watch it sink- a week later. It's like trying to kill a moose with a sewing needle. Why any sub skipper would want to hang out on the surface- against an enemy who largely controls the air- for the length of time it would take do do any meaningful damage to a large ship is beyond me. Just don't do it. That is why Germaniawerft put an 88 on your deck. If you have to shoot a freighter, shoot it with that. That's what it was intended for.

They put the 88 on deck, cause you could hit from much saver distance. And i myself would use any weapon which does the job i need it for. Historical or not.

[Stefan A. Höllwarth]

Originally posted by GrinderX9:

Thank you for this. I could sink a ship with half a clip of ammo, it even felt redundent to have a deck gun.

Where did you shoot at, so you could sink a ship with 15 hits? I never could. Normally needed round about 300 rounds.

[clifferat]

I use 20mm AA gun to tear up Corvette bridges and then use about 10x AP to sink them. If you kill the bridge officers and get a nice fire started on the control deck of the bridge you can sink them with AP.

[BanDHMO]

So that's why. I was wondering how dumping 500 rounds of HE 20mm into the cargo hold of a full tanker didn't seem to do anything.

EDIT: I see somebody has patched it back, if anyone wants:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3317308898

[Nazarene]

Originally posted by Stefan A. Höllwarth:

They put the 88 on deck, cause you could hit from much saver distance. And i myself would use any weapon which does the job i need it for. Historical or not.

No, they equipped the U-Boats with large-bore deck guns because a torpedo cost 25000 Reichsmarks, and an 88mm artillery shell cost 80RM. The 20mm was never intended as anything but an AA defense weapon. Not saying it had to be used only for that- but it was virtually never used to sink large ships. Hopefully the Devs will see how silly this is and revise it's power sharply downward. It's so unrealistic to sink large ships with it, it would kill immersion completely for me. But-it's your sim, you do you-