Am I doing it "right"?

[Das_Daw]

While this seems like a question I should have asked my ex-girlfriend more frequently, concerning the game what I actually want to know are two things:

1. Are my decisions good gameplaywise?
2. Do they make sense historically, so are those decisions actual uboat commanders have done?
(I know it is a game and I can do what I want, but I actual wonder if I am making good decisions here)
I will write what I did, step by step and put the points I am wondering about in (...) at the end of each bullet point.

So here is what I did (I am playing on the most realistic setting fyi):


1. After upgrading from the IIA to the IID not only was a sigh of relief heard from all my crew and in front of my screen, but I actually set sail (or whatever uboats do) for the first time to patrol on the far side of England, north of Ireland. (Fyi we are spring 1940)

2. On the way however I received word of a massive konvoi (~48 ships) being reported close to me, so I altered my course to intercept. We are still in the north sea, between England and Norway - nowhere near my mission zone.
(So is trashing the original plan a thing, as long as I sink ships?)

3. After getting close, i perused the ships and picked my target, the HMS Norfolk, a Cruiser accompanying the convoy.
(So when attacking a convoy is picking a warship of the weight of cruiser and up actually a good choice or should one go for tranport ships?)

4. I decided to shoot all of my torpedos at the HMS Norfolk, since I have no research upgrades on any torpedos yet and they still feel pretty wonky. So i fanned a three torpedo shot that resulted in 1 dud and 2 hits. I used the Magnetic detonator shooting under the ship, which at this stage seems to yield better results than impact detonator. The HMS Norfolk immediately set course to 90° downwards and proceeded to the bottom of the sea.
(Is it the right call to fan all torpedos at one ship? It feels like a bit of a waste having shot 3/5th of my torpedos of the IID at one ship. Would 2 torpedos have sufficed or should I always play it safe here since duds are a thing? Just for info: My torpedo officer has taken the perk that reduces detonator problems and the torpedos were freshly checked. So I think I am prepared pretty good, but still have 1/3 duds).

4.5. It is about midnight while I do all this, it is pitch black (lighter nights not enabled), so I had opted for an overwater attack on the HMS Norfolk. Because the waves were high enough to not give me any clear sight with the oberver telescope. The attack persicope goes higher, but it doesn't have the red filter without which I couldn't see anything. It felt really weird being overwater just 2.5 km from the convoy, but since I was at 90° angle they apparently didn't spot me. (Why does the attack periscope not have colour filters btw? Because the original one didn't I suppose, but it would seem very useful. So is overwater attack at night a solid call?).

5. After sinking the HMS Norfolk I did my standard manouver that has served me well until here: Set a 45° course, dive close to the bottom of the sea all the way employing the lowest speed forward. I creep away at 2kn with sneaking, blue light etc. (Like I said, has served me very well up to this point. Anything to change up here?)

6. I am now playing at 12x forward speed and waterbombs start falling - but all very far away. I do not know if the escorts spotted another uboat or are just wrath-carpetbombing because they have no idea where I am.

7. So after a while of this I get to periscope depths to assess the situation: I see 4 corvets and 3 destroyers killing deep see fish to my right, while the rest of the convoy escapes to the horizon on my left. So I surfaced (about 3500 meters away from the escorts), turned towards the escaping convoy and followed it full speed ahead above water. (This felt like an absolute mad thing to do, to chase overwater between escorts and convoy, even though we are still at about 0:30 and everything is dark. It didn't feel like a clever move - was it one? Is it feasable to attack the same convoy again or should I just be happy I escaped the first time?).

8. I closed in on the last ship of the convoy, got my ship into an almost 90° and fired my last two torpedos as a fan. One miss and hit and the Empire SomethingSomething sank. (Again 2 torpedos used for one boat. Am I doing all right here or should I have targeted 2 ships with 1 torpedo?)

9. I repeated my manouver from 5. After getting away from my initial shooting position a bit, I sank to the ground this time and just waited three uneventful hours. Then I resurfaced and everybody was gone. (But what to do now? Still going to my assinged mission area and patrol there seems nonsensical now. So do I just return to Wilhelmshafen without doing my actual mission patrol? Do I go to Helgoland to restock and still do my mission? (There do not seem to be any supply ships in the north sea to restock at see). I am a bit at a loss as to what is the "right" or the "realistic" play now.)

10. So overall: Was attacking the convoy and shooting all of my torpedos at the convoi the "right" choice? Was the decision making and the "yield" of the attack ok or should I have done better? I simply have no framework to actually evaluate if a mission like this is decent for a IID uboat or not. All I see on youtube are people attacking convoys at 45° angles and sinking 3 ships with three torpedos.

Thank you all for your input/feedback!

[Bllasae]

Only GRT count for your mission, and convoys inside your designated patrol area, ignore any of the calls for a Wolfpack outside of them. Also your uboat is meant to attack only freighters, since you wasted all of your torpedoes against cruisers you have only AA/the deck gun or manually boarding freighters to sink them from now on to accomplish your goals. Two torpedoes for one freighter is fine though. And anything you do that prevents damage when you're escaping from cruisers and destroyers means you're doing it right.

[Fatrider]

So first off. Watch the Movie Das Boot. It is based off a book that was written extrapolated from real events. Although the movie is fictional it give a pretty good idea of life on a uboat.

Now, Im not sure how it worked in real life but as far as the game goes your tonnage totals dont count until you reach your patrol zone. You can go outside it to chase down prey and your GRT will count then but you must reach your patrol zone first.

Historically, uboat commanders would not waste torpedoes on warships unless it was a big one. The transports were their prey. The goal was to starve out England after all and sinking warships would not accomplish that goal. However, Im not above putting a single torp in an escort for payback for all the times Ive been depth charged.

[SpaceBikerV]

2. Sinking ships before hitting a patrol zone is a waste of time. Sinking ships outside the patrol zone after you touched it is completely fine and intended

3. Your job is to sink merchant tonnage, not warships. While the bigger the warship, the bigger the medal points, that’s not what the kriegsmarine wants. They want to starve Britain (and Russia) of supplies

4. Magnetics are generally more damaging than impacts because they can hit deep under the keel. But they are more likely to fail. This is historically authentic.

Fanning shots is generally done for long range attacks. It’s simply a waste to fire a fan at close range unless you want to seriously guarantee a single ship’s destruction (Uboat Commander Handbook, 1943)

A single torpedo is enough to sink a destroyer or corvette. Even a carrier. But i suppose i cruiser might need more than 1 eel

The engineer skill to “eliminate” duds is not a 100% reduction. More like 30%

4.5 Surface attacks are preferable due to the speed you can escape with. This was a tactic widely used in real life until radar was installed on escorts, forcing uboats to attack underwater for the rest of the war. Realistically the UZO should offer the best visibility, but the game doesn’t seem to simulate this properly even with darker nights. Use the observation periscope instead

6. If you aren’t threatened by falling depth charges, that’s a good opportunity to increase engine speed for a minute. They won’t hear you during the explosion

7. When the opportunity presents itself, a uboat must relentlessly pursuit its targets. So if escorts aren’t threatening you, go ahead and surface, and sink as many merchants as you can

8. “One ship, one torpedo” was Kretschmer’s motto. And in the Handbook, “better to destroy many than to destroy none”. Another time to fire salvos is if you are uncertain about your hit chance.

9. Again, relentlessly pursue your target because you never know when you’ll find another convoy. Even if it means hunt the same convoy you attacked 3 hours ago

If you are low on supplies, then resupply. “Resupply ships” don’t exist in the game by the way. Rather, “milkcows” are responsible for resupplying uboats. Normally for long range missions though. And you have to unlock then first (and reposition them)

10. At this point, i think you should just read the Uboat Commander Handbook, available for free online. I consult this document whenever i need advice and it’s surprisingly adaptable to the game

It’s a hefty book though but you should focus mostly on Section II and Section III

[DominicoMucci]

Wow so many questions so i will try to answer them all gameplay and real life are two different things here so i will answer for both.

First off as an aside they didnt really use the type II for much more than training. But we will let that one slide.

So for 1 and 2 in real life they would expect you to attack the convoy nearby. They send you on patrol to find ships, if you find ships before patrol zone etc you still sink them. So perfect historically. In game you get extra points for going to patrol zone and for sinking the right amount of tonnage so you may lose these points gameplay wise (personally i go for realism rather than gameplay.


3 In real life the warship would be the priority target, battleships, cruisers and aircraft carriers were HUGE targets, any kills or damage on these would be medal worthy, beyond the tonnage war. However i believe in game you get zero for them (i havent tested release version) so game play wise bad idea, real life great idea unless someone can point out updates.

4 Yes you are right to fire all the torps at a target like that, in reality you would get one chance at a target like that and would want to fire everything at it. Gameplay wise if you know you will hit it you could fire 2 if you want to be stingy with targets but in reality it would be all tubes spread.

4.5 Dont play with darker nights imo. Its unrealistic, the game is far too dark. In reality its quite light at night at sea, you can see pretty well, i dont know what the devs were thinking to add this, its like horror 5th dimension dark. Again from gameplay you might like it but for me its broken. You cant see stuff you should be able to see. Yes you would attack on the surface thats what u boats are designed for. You dont realise how tiny they are and how hard to spot at distance at night. They have such a low profile. But my advice, switch off darker nights its not realistic at all.

5 The Uboat is actually quite weak underwater, and you should only be underwater if spotted or risk of spotting, if you attack a convoy and are unseen run back on the surface, No need to dive. Its more complicated but stay on the surface, dive if under fire or spotted and enemies are closing. As for depth you dont need to go too deep unless enemies are close as you need to be ready to check periscope and then surface for the faster speed. U boats go about the speed of a Cyclist underwater, very slow, also in reality they had 1 hour battery at full speed so it wasnt the best place to be. Gameplay wise we have super batteries so you can go underwater more, but still try to stay topside.

Obviously late war this changes in real life as radar is more prevelent, boats couldnt surface attack anymore.

6 I think the AI is pretty poor, atleast early war, they will just randomly drop which to be fair happened sometimes. Again cant comment in game late war how they work. In reality they should co ordinate attack you and circle one at a time keeping you under constant attack.

7. So surfacing and attacking the convoy while escorts are behind you is in real life mad, in reality they wouldnt all have gone to get you and escorts would be with the convoy, they can close fast and you would give away your position, its a super risky crazy move your instincts are right. However in game i think escorts abandon the convoy, i need to do more testing but they sadly seem to. In this situation the convoy should scatter so you can only chase one of them.

8. Firing 2 or more torps at a ship is realistic, commanders wouldnt fire one and see if it hit then go round and reset and fire more. Lives were worth more than torps and hitting first time was priority. Again in game if you want to maximise gamey tonnage then play in a gamey way.

9. If you had used up all your torps then in reality you would go home a hero if you got hits, you wouldnt go to the patrol zone, you wouldnt go restock and go out. You would go back for refit etc. Again however game wise i dont know what it does with the patrol zone, if you can ask for new orders etc once back.

10. Overall you did amazing in real life and would be up for awards.

Some hints on how to fight as a captain in a Uboat,

You should be engaging at night on the surface, you should be firing 1-2 km from enemies,

Underwater 1 km or so during the day.

You should be hitting any target not just patrol zone targets.

You should be attacking targets from 90 degress rather than any angle if possible, firing so the torp hits as they coming to the front of you. If aircraft attack you should be diving also, rather than fighting them.

The problem with this game is its sadly quite unrealistic in some ways but amazing in others. Remember it started as a crew management game and has morphed into more of a sim game, so its good considering but it lacks some of the realism.

Ultimately with this game play how you find it "fun" but if you want more advice on the realities give me a shout as i studied ww2 and uboats etc.

Hope thats all helpful took me a while to write it.

Extra note from some playing :
Update to my post on tbe warships I just found a carrier doing 6 knots in a straight line. Worrying ai but its now sunk...

But I got zero tonnage for it but a lot of medal points back in port. So they are worth sinking.

I guess I also got "money" though I didn't pay attention to that since I have so much already on hard mode.

I'll add this to my original post

[Bang Bang Feuer Frei]

Originally posted by DominicoMucci:

4.5 Dont play with darker nights imo. Its unrealistic, the game is far too dark.

No it is not. I have spent quite a few nights at sea myself on board of a destroyer and I do remember how literally black it gets in the middle of the sea (not near any coastline with lights and without moonlight). You could see maybe 30 meters around the ship (we were running red lights on the outside walls of the superstructure and not many of them, just enough to see where you were walking). It is different on a cruise ship for example as they got an abundance of lights going, but since we are talking about submarines at war here - I do play with darker nights on and I am finding it quite realistic.

As far as
"2. Do they make sense historically, so are those decisions actual uboat commanders have done?"
goes - if you want to make decisions like a real skipper would have done, forget about saving the game and reloading it in case something goes wrong. Play the "dead is dead" way and see if and how that influences your decision making. Historically, and not only back then but still today, the top priority for any captain is the safety of boat and crew. So there is a fine line between ensuring that safety and the risk taking to score a hit. Many of the aces did not make it back for a reason.

Attacks on convoys at night on the surface, yes they were done extensively, preferrably with a so called "Wolfsrudel" (wolfpack), meaning more than 1 boat attacking at the same time to cause max. damage and confusion. Boats were actually shadowing convoys for days without attacking them, only transmitting position updates so more boats could be led there before the actual attack began. That is something I'd like to see in the game.

[Das_Daw]

Thank you for all your feedback, especially @SpaceBikerV and @DominicoMucci for being so specific. (So all your tiping wasn't in vain Dominico, I really appreciated it, not least because you offered a different assessment than the others!).

I will not adress every point in return, because that would take ages. But concerning ships I see that I should probably not get destracted by shiny things like Cruisers but focus on freighters. So I shift my temptation threshold to battleships. After all their sightings are mentioned sometimes in the battle briefings, so I can just assume that BdU would want me to hit those.)

Also thanks for clarifying the game mechanics concerning what ships are counted how in the context of the game. I wasn't completely sure how things were counted and XP was given. That being said, i think I will still opt for the authentic experience and attack ships even on route to my mission area. After consulting the u boat commanders handbook today (since it comes up in all threats to this game) it also recommends that a bird in hand is better than two in the bush. ("Was man hat, hat man!")

So concerning the fanning of torpedos opinions seem pretty split here. The handbook recommends it only for extremely fast moving targets. Honestly the reason I fan 2 torpedos atm is that I haven't got a handle on determining speed yet with realistic settings. Doesn't matter if it is above water with UZO or submerged with depth steering - the boat is bumping around so much that I seldom get a clean reading. Since I know freighters are often going between 6 and 8 kn, I often set the speed for the torpedo computer (or what it is called) to 7 kn, fan 2 torps and usually one finds the target. So in these cases my above average torpedo usage is a bit of a skill issue I guess.

Originally posted by Bang Bang Feuer Frei:

if you want to make decisions like a real skipper would have done, forget about saving the game and reloading it in case something goes wrong.

I definitely aspire to make such an "iron man" run in the future (which I guess means that I am leaning more towards realsims than gamey), but since this is my first go and I still try to learn and assess stuff (hence my post here), I do not think I am quite there yet.

[DominicoMucci]

Originally posted by Bang Bang Feuer Frei:

Originally posted by DominicoMucci:

4.5 Dont play with darker nights imo. Its unrealistic, the game is far too dark.

No it is not. I have spent quite a few nights at sea myself on board of a destroyer and I do remember how literally black it gets in the middle of the sea (not near any coastline with lights and without moonlight). You could see maybe 30 meters around the ship (we were running red lights on the outside walls of the superstructure and not many of them, just enough to see where you were walking). It is different on a cruise ship for example as they got an abundance of lights going, but since we are talking about submarines at war here - I do play with darker nights on and I am finding it quite realistic.

100 million percent you are wrong, and im surpised if you were on board a destroyer and dont know this. For sure you must have been lit up like a christmas tree.

If you go out into the wilds on a night where there are no lights you will see, or even on a boat with no lights, you can see very well due to the moon, the only time it would be very dark is in a storm.

Uboats were not lit up at all at night, and the commander would wear goggles to preserve his night vision before going up to look, read the historical accounts they could see kms distance, and the enemy smoke and ships were visible vs the horison.

They didnt have 30 metres visibility :D

Honestly anyone here playing darker nights setting, if you like it caus its a challenge fair enough, but dont play it for realism as its actually the opposite, the game is far too dark and it should be played with this setting off and also the gamma up a bit to get the perfect realistic brightness for night.

Really dont give misleading information out. How did they do surface night attacks with 30 metre visibility... they could see km at night.

[Grumpy Old Dude]

OK...there is no such thing as right or wrong. You make decisions based on your individual play style. IF your decisions force you to play differently than you want to? It was a poor decision. If they reinforce what you want to do? They are good decisions.

[Adam]

I'll just chime in to say:

• It's good to attack ships on the way to your patrol area, but I usually won't go too far out of my way. I.e. if it'll be a long chase in the "wrong" direction, then I'll let it go.
  
• Personally I'd recommend one torpedo per ship. If you get the solution right, it'll hit, and if it hits it's almost guaranteed to sink a freighter. If you get the solution wrong enough to miss, often a salvo isn't going to help much; you'll just miss the whole salvo.
  
• I haven't seen ships notice torpedoes in the water, or if they do it's very rare. So if you miss with one, you can usually just fix your solution and try again.
  
• If you're too far away to get a good solution, I'd say to just get closer rather than waste a torpedo, especially with the Type II.
  
• There are plenty of ships on the sea. I'd rather sink five ships with five torpedoes if I can, even if it means only sinking one ship in a convoy before moving on.
  
• If it's night time, feel free to run ahead of the convoy on the surface and take another shot. Just head diagonally away far enough that they're not going to see you; then get ahead and lie in wait.
  
• If you're out of torpedoes, try the deck or flak gun. Early in the war, when freighters are unarmed and they can't call in immediate support, you can just use guns on any lone freighters. They nerfed the flak gun today, though, so I don't know if it's still effective.
  
• Pro tip: If you call a freighter on the radio and say you're planning to sink her, there's a good chance they'll immediately abandon ship. (It may help to have an officer with the persuasive trait - whatever it's called - do it.) If they don't abandon ship they'll start evasive maneuvers, so it's only really good when you're using the guns. But if they do abandon ship, then it's a super easy target.
  
• It's not useless to do your patrol with no torpedoes. You can still radio in any ships you see for other U-boats to attack!

[mazdamundi]

always get in front of the convoy and wait for them to come to you, there uslly destroyer out front, so turn every thing off go to blue silent running dive to 30m at least let them pass over you, then when your in the mid's you can just go periscope depth and rip into the convoy, when you get decoy's drop them at periscope depth then go down to crush 200m, if your not doing evasive manuvers just stay at dead slow,

[Bang Bang Feuer Frei]

Originally posted by DominicoMucci:

100 million percent you are wrong

Sure, if you say so, based on your vast expertise I guess.

Originally posted by DominicoMucci:

and im surpised if you were on board a destroyer and dont know this. For sure you must have been lit up like a christmas tree.

Ok now please tell me, why would a warship be "lit up like a christmas tree"? Maybe we were doing it all wrong, damn.

Originally posted by DominicoMucci:

If you go out into the wilds on a night where there are no lights you will see, or even on a boat with no lights, you can see very well due to the moon

I said there: "(not near any coastline with lights and without moonlight)"
So please read before answering, thank you.

Originally posted by DominicoMucci:

Uboats were not lit up at all at night

No sh*t. Have I said they were? Did you even read my post?

Originally posted by DominicoMucci:

and the commander would wear goggles to preserve his night vision before going up to look, read the historical accounts they could see kms distance,

Alle the guys who went up on the bridge for watch at night coming from a brighter inside of the boat would wear these goggles before going up. They are meant for the eyes to get used to the darker surroundings, not to "preserve night vision".
Now show me a historical account where it says how many kilometers (nautical miles works, too) you could see standing on the bridge of a WW2 era German submarine with no optics other than your binoculars in
a) a night without moonlight (as I stated, again, "no moonlight"), and
b) with moonlight. Thank you.

Originally posted by DominicoMucci:

and the enemy smoke and ships were visible vs the horison.

In the black of night, sure. Good luck seeing smoke against the horizon 10 km away. Sorry but this is just plain stupid. Even if you were never at sea you should be able to picture this in your mind and realise that it won't work.

Originally posted by DominicoMucci:

They didnt have 30 metres visibility :D

You sound like you have been there, ok cool.

Originally posted by DominicoMucci:

Really dont give misleading information out.

Maybe you should do that.

Originally posted by DominicoMucci:

How did they do surface night attacks with 30 metre visibility... they could see km at night.

By doing these attacks in not totally blacked out nights. Moonlight is a thing. Even stars give some illumination in clear nights. Now deduct all that and you get what? Exactly.

[Marius]

I havent been at sea, but as a poor infantry man in the woods, starlight is plenty bright if it is the only light around. The moon rising seems as if a car turns on its headlights in that situation...
UBoats dark nights seem to dark for a clear sky, but okay for storms.

[DominicoMucci]

Update to my post on tbe warships I just found a carrier doing 6 knots in a straight line. Worrying ai but its now sunk...

But I got zero tonnage for it but a lot of medal points back in port. So they are worth sinking.

I guess I also got "money" though I didn't pay attention to that since I have so much already on hard mode.

I'll add this to my original post.

[Marius]

Originally posted by DominicoMucci:

Update to my post on tbe warships I just found a carrier doing 6 knots in a straight line. Worrying ai but its now sunk...

But I got zero tonnage for it but a lot of medal points back in port. So they are worth sinking.

I guess I also got "money" though I didn't pay attention to that since I have so much already on hard mode.

I'll add this to my original post.

The carriers go as fast as the convoi they are in, and if the convoi goes 6kn and hasnt seen you yet, the carrier goes 6kn as well and in a straight line.

Sinking them doesnt count to your tonnage as they arent freighters carrying goods, sinking them doesnt help starve Britain.
You get a bunch of "money" reporting their sinking and medals.

My head canon is that they arent the Illustrious but some cheap escort carrier on a freighter hull that just hasnt gotten its own model yet

[The Helarquinn]

Originally posted by Bang Bang Feuer Frei:

Originally posted by DominicoMucci:

100 million percent you are wrong

Sure, if you say so, based on your vast expertise I guess.

Originally posted by DominicoMucci:

and im surpised if you were on board a destroyer and dont know this. For sure you must have been lit up like a christmas tree.

Ok now please tell me, why would a warship be "lit up like a christmas tree"? Maybe we were doing it all wrong, damn.

Originally posted by DominicoMucci:

If you go out into the wilds on a night where there are no lights you will see, or even on a boat with no lights, you can see very well due to the moon

I said there: "(not near any coastline with lights and without moonlight)"
So please read before answering, thank you.

Originally posted by DominicoMucci:

Uboats were not lit up at all at night

No sh*t. Have I said they were? Did you even read my post?

Originally posted by DominicoMucci:

and the commander would wear goggles to preserve his night vision before going up to look, read the historical accounts they could see kms distance,

Alle the guys who went up on the bridge for watch at night coming from a brighter inside of the boat would wear these goggles before going up. They are meant for the eyes to get used to the darker surroundings, not to "preserve night vision".
Now show me a historical account where it says how many kilometers (nautical miles works, too) you could see standing on the bridge of a WW2 era German submarine with no optics other than your binoculars in
a) a night without moonlight (as I stated, again, "no moonlight"), and
b) with moonlight. Thank you.

Originally posted by DominicoMucci:

and the enemy smoke and ships were visible vs the horison.

In the black of night, sure. Good luck seeing smoke against the horizon 10 km away. Sorry but this is just plain stupid. Even if you were never at sea you should be able to picture this in your mind and realise that it won't work.

Originally posted by DominicoMucci:

They didnt have 30 metres visibility :D

You sound like you have been there, ok cool.

Originally posted by DominicoMucci:

Really dont give misleading information out.

Maybe you should do that.

Originally posted by DominicoMucci:

How did they do surface night attacks with 30 metre visibility... they could see km at night.

By doing these attacks in not totally blacked out nights. Moonlight is a thing. Even stars give some illumination in clear nights. Now deduct all that and you get what? Exactly.

Perhaps there is some confusion here, I'm reading it all as Darker Nights just makes everything darker, whereas in reality on a pitch-black sea even a tiny light is going to be far easier to spot than at any other time. So maybe, you can't see far (obviously), nor see things like waves etc but any light source such as ( I don't know I'm not an expert) the glow from a light in a cabin would stand out much better? Or a crew member with a torch walking round.

I'm assuming the issue is darker nights removes this by making the blackness more "opaque" so it's pitch black AND you can't pick out any clue lights?

Just my 2 pence worth.